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We're coming into the last few dates for Return of the Rat Tour. We'll be in Philadelphia, Rochester, New York, Detroit, Michigan, Los Angeles, Anaheim,

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and Oceanside. You can get your tickets only at theon.com/tour. And thank you to everyone that has shown

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support. Love y'all. Wanted to mention that uh Governor Tim Walls was going to be a guest on the podcast this week. Uh but there was a shooting uh amongst some

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of his co-workers uh colleagues um Minnesota lawmakers and so uh they're obviously very bererieved up there and

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and uh we wish them uh peace and prayers and hope to catch up with him another time. Just uh advising that this episode

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was recorded late last week. Uh I was on tour and so we couldn't uh get it all put together, but we're happy to get it out today. Um today's guest is a

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congressman from Kucky's fourth district. Uh he is from Appalachia and he got a master's degree at MIT before

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he got into politics. Uh he's a member of the Republican party, but he's a bit of a rogue guy. He does things his own way. And I am fortunate today to spend

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time with Congressman Thomas Massie. [Music] And I will find a song. I will sing it.

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[Applause] [Music] All right. Thomas Massie, thanks for

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coming in, man. Absolutely. Good to see you, dude. Good to be here. just had to cross the state border to get here. Yeah, that's what I see from Kentucky. And you uh you drove like you just took

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me into your home in your camper home vehicle. It's a F250 with a truck camper and I lived for two solid years in it in

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DC. Still occasionally do. And where would you park that thing at? Well, I don't want to disclose where I parked, but I did get in trouble. Uh I parked

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the uh truck camper. It's a Superduty. It's got a even though it fits in the back of a pickup, it's got a shower, bathroom, stove, and a fridge. It felt

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super when I was in there. That living arrangement in there, I could have definitely cozied up. It felt very cool. The milk felt cold in there. We had a little cup of milk, which is definitely

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It's raw milk. Yeah, I'm sure. Hopefully. Don't tell anybody across state lines with that. But u So here's a funny story. I was parking this truck

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camper in DC in a congressional lot and it got hotter than the hinges of hell in the summertime in this parking lot. So,

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I ran a little extension cord over to the electric car charging station so I could run the air conditioner on my camper at night. Well, the cops like to

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park, they didn't know I was living in this camper and I would park close to a Sprinter van and the cops would park between me and the sprinter van to take a nap at night. Oh, so everybody's

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working together. Yeah. I would look out the camper and do a wellness check on them at night. They didn't know I was looking out for them. But anyways, one night, that's diplomacy. It's how it all

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works. It's like everybody's kind of hiding a little bit behind the other group. One night, it was like that movie Bridge Over the River Quai. They found my 50-foot extension cord and followed

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it over to the electric car charging station. He said, "Damn, there's somebody living in this truck." Yeah. So, my chief of staff got a call from the speaker's chief of staff and uh he

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said, "We think your boss is living in lot 28 and he said, "What do you mean in a pickup truck?" And I and I said told my chief, "Don't call him back. Let me

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settle this." So, we have a don't ask don't tell arrangement. As long as I don't start a KOA or something in the congressional lot, I can live there. If

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the cops are getting a little bit of shut eyee, you know what I'm saying? You're able to operate a grill, you know, or a little two-stroke motor in there, something to keep the blender working. Well, you know, I got to mix my

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medical margaritas in there and keep the raw milk cold. So, what I eventually did was cover it in solar panels and took off the old air conditioner and put a

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mini split on the back. So, it looks like the Millennial Falcon now. Oh, yeah. It definitely looks like the guy that's in there. It definitely seems like you want to get his fingerprints. I

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feel like that has a KOD outside of it, you know. Uh but that's that's Isn't it a lot of your vibe is that you're off the grid? I've heard that. Yeah. Off the

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grid uh in the camper and off the grid at home. So I haven't bought public utilities in 20 years. Wow. And that,

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you know, that kind of ties into when I go to DC, that gives me some independence because if all if everything goes to hell and I'm no longer a congressman and I don't have a

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job, I still got a house where all my own utilities are taken care of. Um, it's it runs off solar, got a backup generator, got a well that I dug, and it

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it just gives you the sense that, okay, things the the worst day in Kentucky is better than my best day in DC. And this is you right here. This is some Oh, this

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is you right here. Yeah, that's one of my gardens. And there's some of my chickens clucking around. Oh, yeah. I built a mobile pin that moves with the

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chickens um to keep the coyotes from eating them. Now, it's like a Roomba. Think of a Roomba with 50 chickens in it. Okay. Moving around in my yard. It

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runs on solar, collects rain water, and it takes care of my chickens when I'm not there. And what makes it move? How does that even work? Bring that up, Trevan. Can you give me so we can see what I'm looking at? I don't have any

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footage of it on here, but um I call it So I It first ran off batteries and a solar panel and the batteries went dead and I'm like, "This sucks. I don't like

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taking batteries to a landfill because I was trying to come up with a green way to raise chickens." So I figured out a way to do it with super capacitors. There's no battery in it and the super

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capacitors never wear out. And I call it the Klux capacitor. Is this kind of what exactly? Yeah, that's what it's like. Except Yeah, except mine moves itself. Mine's like a

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Roomba version that's robotic. And so what is the point of it moving? Well, you know, chickens poop and you don't want them walking around in their own

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poop. Oh yeah. They also like to eat a certain amount of grass and bugs and so this gives them fresh forage and it keeps them out of their poop. They don't get disease. It fertilizes my yard. It

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mows my grass. Everything's all happy in the Klux capacitor. I got to get a damn chicken, dude. Or a little batch of chickens. I got to get something. I

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almost bought my mom two goats, but she like for years she's like, "Give me some goats." And then then she didn't want it. She just has a problem with everything. But um anyway, uh so what is

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a flux capacitor? Klux capacitor. Okay. What is an actual what is a It's the circuit that I designed. So, uh, I'm a double E by training, electrical

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engineer by training. And, um, I just had to come up with some way to keep my chickens alive and keep them healthy while I went to DC. So, I came up with this circuit board that's got capacitors

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that trickle charge from a little solar panel the size of a sheet of paper. And, um, it's got an automotive winch in the front, so it can pull itself even if it

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weighs 2500 lb. Wow. Along a cable. So, you don't have you don't pay an electric bill. No electric bill, no water bill, no sewer bill. I do have an internet

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bill because I use Starlink. Oh, yeah. And is that legal? Are you allowed to legally be a person like that? Well, you know, they tried to bring more regulation to our county uh 20 years ago

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before I was a congressman and I wrote letters to the editor and mobilized people and we stopped them from bringing more regulation to our county. So, it's still legal where I live. Wow. Because

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this is it seems like a very like libertarian or almost like dem like a lot of the ideas seem almost very like something you would see like on the Democratic party which sounds kind of wild, you know. Oh, I I say I'm the

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greenest member of Congress and no Democrat has come after me. No fact checker has ever tried to check that fact because they know it's true. Wow. It's kind of crazy that the greenest

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member, you know, with the term green is now a Republican because you wouldn't necessarily think that. No, you wouldn't think that. I mean, I have a Tesla that charges off the solar panels on my

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house. Uh, collect rainwater. I dug a well. I've got a bunch of trees that I'm not cutting down. They are bringing in all kinds of CO2. Although I like CO2. I

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wish I had more because it makes my peaches get bigger on my farm. Oh, yeah. My I raise grass-fed cattle. And what kind of What kind of group do you have

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helping you over there? Because I I don't think you can't get out there first thing every day and do it all. I do it myself. 90% of it. I mean, if I'm in DC and the cattle get loose, I got a

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neighbor. You know, you got to have some neighbors that'll help you. And the deal is I'll help them when they need help. Oh, there's a picture of my cattle. They are Angus crossed with Wagyu. I call

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them Wangus. Oh, wow. Wangus beef. It's a little Oh, yeah. It's a little urban over there. Definitely. That's definitely uh There's There's the You know, not the black sheep, but the white

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cow. Uh he kind of stands out. I say I feel like that white cow in DC some days like do I really belong in this herd?

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Yeah. Yeah. You seem like a little bit of like an outsider. I think like or you know like a black sheep or like a maverick. I feel like people say if they talk about a maverick then they say

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Thomas Massie you know. Um how much money do you save by uh living the way that you do like off-grid? You know I don't think I've saved a dime. It costs

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a lot to do it. Uh, you can save money by heating your house with wood, which I do. But you, if you start counting the

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uh, how much you're paying yourself when you chop that wood, it's probably about $3 an hour, right? And I could go work at Dollar General and make more money than I do when I save money, heating my

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house with wood. So, if I were completely, you know, poor, I could keep living, but to set all that up took took a large investment. It'll probably pay

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off by the time I die. So, you just want to end the with even books. Zero. Yeah. Yeah. Just clear the tab when I leave the bar. No debt. No debt. Yeah. Yeah.

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Because you always wonder like, okay, I want to live off the grid. I want But there's a there's a real cost to it, but a lot of that cost is sweat equity. Do you feel like? Yeah. It's sweat equity

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and it'll it'll pay back unlike what we're doing in DC. I mean, if we were borrowing money in DC to fund the future, I could be for borrowing money.

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The problem is up there, it's not like on my farm where you invest in fences and you invest in livestock. In DC, we're just pissing away the money and

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living on basically our seed corn. We are taking what should be saved for the next generation and spending it now. Is that how you feel? Yeah, it's we're

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robbing the next generation, but it's got so bad we're robbing ourselves 5 years from now. Right. It's getting that close. I've heard you talk about Are you talking about the national debt overall?

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Okay. I've heard you talk a lot about it and I see you got your um this is my my debt badge. Um it shows I've got three levels of brightness so if you wear it

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to the movies you can tone it down and not blind your date but okay. So I've got on the brightest level there. Hopefully your camera can see it. Yeah. Um I wear this every second I'm in the

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House of Representatives. I wear it in hearings. I wear it in elevators with Democrats. They think it's how many steps I've taken. But I built this using

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my electrical engineering degree. I came up with this idea and I built it. It's got Wi-Fi. Once a day, it connects to the treasury.gov and calibrates to the

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penny. So, it's the most accurate debt uh representation that you can have. In fact, holy dude. Um, let me make

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sure. You're like Mark Zucker Twain. This This is I brought you one as a gift. Yeah, brother. So, um Oh, hell yeah, dude. You can just stare at the

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numbers just spinning all day long. It's um it's an Yeah, it just clips onto your pocket there. What kind of woman am I gonna meet wearing this though? Oh, man. I don't know what kind you've been

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meeting. But you've really upped your game with that thing. You think? Yeah. They're going to think I am way broke. I had I had a female congressman staring at my chest uh the other day and I had

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to tell her my eyes were up here and then she asked if I would make a belt buckle out of it. Oh, damn, brother. Yeah, people want it all nowadays.

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People just want to see your damn wiener if they can for free sometimes. I'm like, get away from me. Um, but let's talk about the national debt actually. Uh, uh, cuz can you explain it to me? A

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lot of people don't even understand the national debt. We hear about it. What is the amount right now too? Well, we don't even really know. I mean, this is the regime number. The one that Treasury

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publishes is 36.2 trillion roughly. Trillion dollars. Yeah. Now, you see this one online, it's not that accurate. like it's off by a a few hundred

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billion. We we were shipping these debt clocks. I don't make them, but my son-in-law makes them and sells them. And he had somebody go online and find this debt counter and say, "Oh, you sold

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me a faulty debt badge." And he's like, "No, ours calibrates with Treasury every day." It's so sad that we can't even get a even our debt clock doesn't like at

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least invest in the clock that shows the debt, right? Well, what they might be trying to do there online is anticipate when we lift the debt limit.

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Like right now, we've hit the debt limit. So, it's stuck at $36.2 trillion. Every day they sort of reset the number until Congress raises the debt limit.

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Now, you say, "How do they do that?" Well, they start selling off the postal workers pension fund. They take the money that's been saved up to pay your

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postman his retirement and they use that to fund other parts of the government. They can only do that for a few months. And that's what we've been doing for,

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you know, the first six months of this presidency. And pretty soon we're going to run out of all those extra things we can spend that we're leveraging basically. Yeah, we're leveraging all

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that and they're going to have to pay it all back. So we're really probably are closer to 36 or 36.8 trillion. And but is that a

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common practice like leveraging like pensions or um I don't want to say like Medicaid and Medicare. They're not leveraging that, right? Oh, anything they can get their hands on. They liquidate it and they spend it for

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instance to buy bombs and send them overseas. That all that deficit spending right now is not funded by Treasury bonds. The all the new deficit spending

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is funded by, you know, the the the trust funds that have been established that might have money in them. Okay. I'm a little confused on that. Um, well,

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it's like it's it's like this, Theo. The uh let's say you saved up for your kids uh college, okay? They've been going to

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college and you got enough to pay the next semester of college. Uh but your credit card comes in and the your credit card gets canled. So instead of renewing

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your credit card, you just spend your kids, you know, next trunch of tuition or something. But you got to find that money before the next semester comes back or else they get kicked out of

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school. Okay. And so how do we find that money? Like because obviously we repeatedly Well, Congress is going to pass a law here in the next few weeks

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and uh and they're just going to say, "Oh, well, there is no debt limit. It's now $5 trillion higher than what we said. They move the limit up. They move the limit up. They get a new credit

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card. They go out. They start borrowing new money to pay off the money they've borrowed." And it's a vicious cycle. Got it. And it's obviously it's a cycle that we've been in for a long time. I think

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to the point where like the uh national debt doesn't even make sense to people, right? It's like here's my question is who do we owe the money to? Some of it

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is owed to institutional investors like the big banks in the United States. Some of it is owed to sovereign wealth funds like China, Japan, other uh countries

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that buy our debt for us. Um it's and here's here's the problem. Right now they're telling us um we don't want to

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buy your debt at 2% or 3% or 4%. We want at least 5% return. And so everybody thinks the Federal Reserve is setting

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interest rates. You know, there's all this discussion, will the Fed raise the rate? Will the Fed lower the rate? The reality right now is the Fed can't do much because if they lower the rate to

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let's say 4% that that and try to tell people to buy our debt at 4% the people who normally buy our debt those foreign countries and those institutional

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investors are saying you're not a good investment at 4% we want 5%. And um that's that's a big problem because just

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to put it in perspective, uh you know, let's let's round this number. If it were $30 trillion and we were paying 5%, that's that's uh that is $16,000

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per family. I've already done the math. I'm not doing all that in my head right now, but it's $16,000 per family of interest that we are paying. Got it? So

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when you pay your taxes for your family, the first $16,000 goes to nothing except for the interest that's paid to those foreign countries and to the big

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bankers. But so we're never going to defeat this number. Um, you know, we might get in a situation like Puerto Rico got into a few years ago where the

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people said, "We're just not loaning you anymore." And you know what happens that day? It's actually kind of a it'll be scary for a lot of people. For me, it would be a good day because that's the

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day we have to balance the budget. When people say, "We're not going to loan you any more money. You're not a good investment. We don't trust that you'll pay it back." That is the day that you

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can only spend as much money as you take in on any given week. And are a lot of people in Congress aware of this and like battling it or it just seems like

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it almost seems like we don't even hear like it seems like it's one of those things you hear about during the election cycle and that's about it, you know? Uh like we're going to balance the budget and it never happens. No one ever

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balances the budget. Like, do you think anyone even either one of these parties even want to balance the budget? No, they're not serious about it. It's why I

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built the debt badge to like shove it in their face every day and it's still they're still not concerned about it. I mean, they're a little bit concerned, but as long as uh they can get

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reelected, they're not that concerned, right? And I don't blame them for all of it. I blame the American people who keep reelecting people who because they tell

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them you can have these things and it won't cost anything. So I I hear people talk about like uh mass deportations and

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there's a hundred billion to DHS and and uh 50 billion to DOJ to do mass deportations. Well, we know we it's not

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it doesn't cost that. Whatever Trump has intended to do, it's not going to cost $150 billion. But people say, "I don't care what it costs." And the reason they

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say, "I don't care what it costs," is they don't think they're paying it. Yeah. They don't care what anything costs. They don't care what war in the Middle East costs cuz they don't see

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that they're paying it. Well, it's all gotten so confusing. And when you when you start with communication with people, even on a financial front of this Hogwartsian number, right? When you

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start because we all learn basic math in school. Some of us learn algebra, some of us go on to learn some higher maths, right? Um but the when you when you

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starting with this we the regular person doesn't know where to begin. You feel literally like numerically defeated out of the gate, right? The average person

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because it's like how what so this sets everything up with impossibility, right? So I think that's

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why we've gotten so far. We've gotten, you know, two generations now into complete impossibility of uh of of numerical reality when it comes to even

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having some of the discussions, I think. Does that make any sense? No, that makes sense. It's virtual reality. Uh right. You know, the last five digits on this deck counter uh they change about

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$80,000 a second. That's like a cyber truck being launched into the ocean every second. Like boom boom boom boom.

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That's how much debt we're taking on. Well, so I hope the new model looks a little bit different. I I have a cyber truck, but and the Yeah. And the put my camper in it. Oh yeah, we I don't know

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if we can fit it in there. I don't think so. That's why I have an F250, dude. Yeah. I think I need to get something that I want something that it feels like it'll you'll burn to death

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when you hit something. You know what I'm saying? That's what I like about something that's got some real fuel in it. But this thing Yeah, this thing definitely Oh, there's one with a camper. But I think the newer ones will

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have camp like better camper abilities. There's no way to get out of the inside like through the back window right now. Um and it kind of feels like you just work for Lowe's, but you never drop off

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what you're delivering. You always like where does this go? You know, like how much meat's in here? It just has that very like uh whirlpool or frigid air

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kind of energy, but it does go very fast. You almost feel like you could beat an email somewhere. Like that is fast, dude. Um the big Let's Let's

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talk since we're talking about debt. Let's talk a little bit about the uh the big beautiful bill, right? Yeah. And it you you oppose it. Yeah. Right. And

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there's reasons that I've learned recently that I oppose it. I I don't know a ton of them, but there's I know some of my reasons, but I don't know what everything that's in the bill. Um why are you against it? Because um it's

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well it's it's not going to help our debt. No, that that's the first big lie that's told about the big beautiful bill. You can finagle the numbers. The

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big beautiful bill looks at a 10-year spending window. Okay? And what it does is in the next 5 years it's going to add to the deficit. Like nobody disputes

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that. Even the number crunchers that work for the president know that's going to happen. What they're claiming is five years from now it will start to break

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even and reduce the deficit. Uh the problem is the people I serve with a lot of them aren't going to be there five

00:21:25.600 --> 00:21:33.909
years from now. The President Trump's not going to be there five years from now. This big beautiful bill doesn't force people 5 years from now to do

00:21:33.919 --> 00:21:42.789
that. It suggests that they should do that and it will do that unless somebody does something different. But they're going to do something different 5 years from now. will get to that point and

00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:52.149
they'll say, "Oh my gosh, that Congress five years ago set up a fiscal cliff. We're going to be hit with tax increases

00:21:52.159 --> 00:22:00.710
on seniors. We're going to be hit with tax on tips. We're going to be hit with tax on overtime. We're oh my gosh, the military is not going to get as much

00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:09.990
money as it got last year. We got to do something about this." And so what they'll do is they'll cut taxes again and they'll increase spending again. And

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:18.789
this deficit will never go down. And I'm not even talking about the debt. The deficit is how much you add to the debt every year. It's about $2 trillion. It's

00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:28.470
going to be above $2 trillion next year. And far as far as the I can see. But I got to talk with uh uh JD Vance a couple of weeks ago and he was talking about

00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:36.870
but that a lot of what's happening now is still because of the last party that was in. Yeah. And a lot of it still because of

00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:45.110
what Trump did when he was in last time. So, I'm just wondering how far it's it's it's it's tough to like as a regular person, it's tough to correlate how far

00:22:45.120 --> 00:22:54.950
up or downstream you are from whatever who was actually responsible for whatever's occurring. Does that make sense? It does make sense. But, you know, in 2020, we had COVID hit and they

00:22:54.960 --> 00:23:03.430
put a $2 trillion spending bill on the floor and they I was the only one who would oppose it. I said, "This is going to cause and this was Trump was

00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:11.669
president and Pelosi was speaker, but they were working together. I said, "This is going to cause massive inflation. You're going to have shortages in the stores and this is

00:23:11.679 --> 00:23:21.110
going to last for years and the inflation once it happens, the prices will never go back down." And that's exactly what happened. They they said, "Congressman Massie," the president's

00:23:21.120 --> 00:23:30.789
chief of staff at the time told me he said it was Mark Meadows who's a friend of mine. We both worked together in Congress. He said, "The reason this is $2 trillion is so we don't have to pass

00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:39.430
another one of these. It's just going to be painful once." Well, guess what? By the time December rolled around under Trump, we passed another one of these stimulus packages that was over a

00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:48.710
trillion dollars. And don't forget, people got a $1,200 check the first time and they got a $600 check the second time. I told folks that's the cheese in

00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:58.549
the trap. That most of, you know, that $1,200 check, you multiply that times the number of families in the United States, it wasn't 5% of the spending in that bill. Most of that money went to

00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:07.750
corporations and banks eventually. Yeah. And so everybody's responsible for it. Everybody wants to point to to the other

00:24:07.760 --> 00:24:17.350
party for it, but you know, it's I don't want to upset too many people who like wrestling, but it's like the WWF. Okay.

00:24:17.360 --> 00:24:25.750
Or, oh, it's felt like this for years. I think everything is turning into to the WWE. Everything. It's all It's all like

00:24:25.760 --> 00:24:35.350
um optics and the way things are shot and this is out there and this is what you believe. It's like interviews that are just to get the hype and then they offstage they're all in the, you know,

00:24:35.360 --> 00:24:44.149
in the locker room. Let's like, you know, rubbing GHB on each other's backs and stuff like that and gramming out, you know. Let me let me tell you something that probably will shock your

00:24:44.159 --> 00:24:52.870
listeners, whether they're Republican or Democrat. Mike Johnson, since he's been the speaker, and he's only been the speaker for less than two years, has put

00:24:52.880 --> 00:25:02.470
183 Democrat bills on the floor and passed them. What did he trade for that? Like I thought we were breaking chairs over top of the Democrats heads in the

00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:10.630
back room. No, that's not what's happening. Is that true? Yeah. How do I look that up? Go to uh congress.gov and

00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:18.789
John's out of Shreport. Yep. He's the speaker of the house. Um but you can see like if you I'm not sure how you look it

00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:28.390
up here at congress.gov, of but you if you spend enough time here and look at every bill that's passed since he's been speaker and and I'm not talking about

00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:37.029
the special bills that reassign committee members I'm talking about bills that do something 183 Democrat sponsored bills and you might say theo

00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:47.110
well the Democrats have good ideas okay we should put their bills on the floor well if I had a good idea what Speaker Johnson would do would take that bill

00:25:47.120 --> 00:25:57.430
from me put somebody else's name on it and put it on the for like if there's something that needs to get done, why would you let a Democrat get credit for it if you're in this mortal combat with

00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:06.310
the other party? But has he made a lot of Republican bills passed, too? Yeah, there have been Yeah, there's been way more Republican bills than Democrat bills. But why has he even passed one

00:26:06.320 --> 00:26:14.470
Democrat bill? Well, I think don't you want to work with the other team? And it's like, isn't it isn't there diplomacy and everything? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you have to like there's a give and take to everything. I

00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:24.710
feel like we've got the majority. Like, why are we putting their bills on the floor? Why would we go in that direction? I understand in the Senate you need 60 votes. So, you got to have a

00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:33.510
Democrat, but some of the bills are good, right? If Thomas Massie has a good bill, they'll put another Republican's name on it and pass it. But but but I

00:26:33.520 --> 00:26:42.630
can't understand what you're saying here. I guess I'm a little bit confused. Are you saying that um Mr. Johnson, who is the speaker of the house, that he

00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:50.789
because bills get brought to him, he puts them on the floor, right? He's the one who's like, "Okay, let's put this on the floor and take it to a vote." Mhm. Right. And you're saying that he he's

00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:58.870
done that with more Democratic le bills than Republican le bills. No, he's done it with 183 Democratic bills. He's probably there's probably been several

00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:06.950
hundred Republican bills. My question though is why would you put one on if you're engaged in this kind of mortal combat for the soul of the country and

00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:16.789
he's and he acts like that. It's because people aren't paying attention to what's going on there. Oh, I agree that I I think people aren't paying attention. I think it's there's so it's all so

00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:26.549
confusing I think to the regular person that it's that it feels like it feels like it the ship sailed long ago from us being at the dock looking each other in

00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:36.390
the eyes with some sense of uh hope. Congress is this big giant black box and people can't see what's going on inside of that black box. They know they're

00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:44.470
electing their congressmen and two of their senators and the president and they're sending them to Washington DC and then they don't understand what

00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:54.470
comes out of that box. I've been in that box for 12 years. Okay. And that's I think that's sort of what my role has evolved to, which is to just try to tell

00:27:54.480 --> 00:28:03.830
people what's going on inside of the box so that they can do a better job of picking congressmen and senators. That's what I always think. I'm like, if somebody would just get elected just to

00:28:03.840 --> 00:28:12.070
get in there and tell us what's we don't even No, we we'll buy you a Volvo or whatever. you know what I'm saying? We'll give you some uh

00:28:12.080 --> 00:28:20.950
Taiwan semiconductor shares, but just tell us what's happening in there. Somebody look in there and just throw a note out and be like, "Hey, this

00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:29.510
is what's really going on." And now the problem we start to get into is there's so much like um uh pandering and everything and on like like so much

00:28:29.520 --> 00:28:40.310
social media used to like try and uh disguise who the messenger is. It really turns into a game. And I think that is one thing that's that's the only joy of it is watching the like the masters of

00:28:40.320 --> 00:28:50.310
this um just game of uh thrones type of energy go on. But how do So the biggest I'll tell you right now it's this is this would be 50% of solving the

00:28:50.320 --> 00:28:59.190
problem. It's not a silver bullet but it's a lot of it. Get rid of the giant bills. Okay you the omnibus bills, the

00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:09.350
continuing resolutions and even the big beautiful bill. Why not put that on the floor one at a time? I agree. And and then that way your you can go to

00:29:09.360 --> 00:29:19.029
your representative or your senators and say why did you vote for that? Right now they can say, "Well, Theo, I had to vote for it. It had a pay raise for soldiers,

00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:28.230
right? They literally will put a pay raise for soldiers in every freaking bill, giant bill, so that if you vote against it, you have to go back home and

00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:37.990
watch TV ads that say he voted against a pay raise for the soldiers." Right. Even though he may have voted for a uh for 90 other amazing things on the bill, right?

00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:47.669
Right. And that was the one that was one thing that was tied in there that if you went this way, you know? Yeah. It may have been like oxygen for grandmothers, right? Literally, there probably is that

00:29:47.679 --> 00:29:56.389
in there. But if you vote for oxygen for grandmothers and you cannot, they're not going to give. So I I voted against oxygen for grandmother so many times

00:29:56.399 --> 00:30:04.789
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00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:44.950
Has there ever been a bill that was like, "Okay, we want to stop these um omnibus uh bills." And bring up omnibus bill. We looked it up the other day when uh Mr. Vance was here, but I just want

00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:53.830
to go over it again. An omnibus bill is proposed law that covers a number of diverse or unrelated topics. Omnibus is derived from Latin. It means to, for,

00:33:53.840 --> 00:34:03.990
by, with, or from everything. An omnibus bill is a single document that is accepted in a single vote by a legislator, but packages together several measures into one or combines

00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:13.430
diverse subjects. So, it's not even really fair because you only get one vote on the bill. Correct. and and not and and so typically an omnibus bill it

00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:21.909
includes at least 12 other bills because there the 1974 budget control act there's a law that says we're supposed to do these bills separately so we've

00:34:21.919 --> 00:34:30.869
already tried the law we already tried thato they just suspend that rule those budget rules every year okay so but show take me through this moment so I don't

00:34:30.879 --> 00:34:39.510
so I don't stray from it so people can be so I can so I can understand it so like give me two examples of things that would be on an omnibus bill that would

00:34:39.520 --> 00:34:50.550
be that there's no way for a voter to win that there's no way for a representative to vote and win on. Okay. Well, the the um the easiest let me just

00:34:50.560 --> 00:35:01.589
take something topical. The big beautiful bill. Inside of that big beautiful bill is a provision for artificial intelligence corporations that says no 10 years for 10 years no

00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:10.550
state or local locality can regulate them. And then it talks about zoning and routing, which if you you know, some of

00:35:10.560 --> 00:35:20.069
your listeners may have seen this like locally somebody's some big corporation wants to put a data center in your backyard. Well, that's what Congress is trying to do. They're trying to say that

00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:28.950
these corporations can override local zoning laws, that the local zoning board should take a backseat and let this big information center show up in your

00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:38.230
backyard that uses all kinds of water and all kinds of power and puts out all kinds of RF and has, you know, oh yeah, your cousin's going to be walking down the street just

00:35:38.240 --> 00:35:48.630
you know, just screaming out Amazon orders. You know, it's going to be the that's going to start happening is going to be crazy. You're literally going to be driving down the road with your windows open and an old

00:35:48.640 --> 00:35:56.950
gust of uh 5G remnants from Blockbuster emails that never got out of got out of uh got out of got uploaded are just going to pass through your

00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:05.190
vehicle. Shit's going to get insane. You're going to have babies that are born with advertisements like birth marks that show up as this this

00:36:05.200 --> 00:36:13.670
is a set of twins with Nike logos on them. What is happening, man? So that's in the big beautiful bill. Okay. And you can know that's evil. you can know

00:36:13.680 --> 00:36:23.670
that's bad and and Trump never campaigned on that. But also in that bill is to enforce our borders, okay? To finish the wall, right? So if you're a

00:36:23.680 --> 00:36:33.589
Republican and you vote for that bill, okay, you supported enforcing the border, but you also let AI basically take over your local and state

00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:41.750
governments, okay? And then if you vote against it, well then you're against the AI provision, but oh my gosh, you're for

00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:51.589
open borders. You know, you're for you don't want to support the military. There was a hundred billion dollars in there for the military. There was oh, you want to tax seniors. There was a tax

00:36:51.599 --> 00:37:00.069
cut for seniors. There was an extension of the tax cuts from 2017. I voted for the 2017 tax cuts, but I voted against

00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:09.109
this 2025 bill because it's got a lot of crap in there that doesn't belong and it's going to balloon our deficit, right? So, you can't win for losing. And

00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:18.069
so, I don't blame a lot of my colleagues like they they come to Congress, they have the best intentions, and you get

00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:26.630
there and you're like, "Oh my gosh, this whole game is rigged. How how am I going to play it? Am I going to call it out? Will that get will that be the best for

00:37:26.640 --> 00:37:35.030
my constituents who elected me or should I play along? And most of them choose to play along. Yeah. And you can't can't

00:37:35.040 --> 00:37:44.950
really blame them. They feel like, oh, my fiduciary duty to the people who elected me is to get as much as I can up here, and if I piss off the Trump and I

00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:54.550
piss off Mike Johnson, I can't get any table scraps. But the reality is they're not even getting table scraps. They are trading. I say every week, congressmen

00:37:54.560 --> 00:38:04.790
trade their votes for magic beans that never sprout. Like Jack and the Beantock, he trades the cow for magic beans. The difference is Jack got beans that sprouted. My congressman, they're

00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:12.870
not getting gas vouchers. They're not getting a Cracker Barrel gift certificate. So, so, um, explain to me how that part works. So, that's a part that I don't understand because you

00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:22.310
mentioned it a little while ago. You're like, I could have a bill and I put it forward cuz Mike Johnson seems like a good guy. He doesn't seem like somebody that would take something that was yours and make it somebody else's. Like I

00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:31.670
don't understand what you're So I don't understand what you're saying. Like how does that work? And take me through like like how can you put a bill out and people would know it's your bill? I mean

00:38:31.680 --> 00:38:40.470
obviously is there information online that says this is a bill that Thomas Massie made or that any person made like any representative made you the other

00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:49.030
thing they'll do with your bills is they'll stick them in another bill. Okay. Let's I'll give you an example. Yeah. Show me how you're saying that people aren't even getting the scraps or whatever. You know what I'm saying? Take

00:38:49.040 --> 00:38:58.069
me through some of that. Uh, well, they're not, Theo. I tell people, I joke with my colleagues up there. They're like, "Man, I see why, uh, you're not a

00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:06.150
sellout." I'm like, I look at them in the eye. I say, "I'm big a sellout up here." Like, I would sell out for Snickers bar, but you guys aren't even getting a Snickers bar. You're not

00:39:06.160 --> 00:39:15.430
getting a bridge in your district. You're not getting a new exit off the interstate. You're not getting anything for your vote. Like, the Nobody's ever offered me anything up there of value.

00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:25.190
I'm not I don't even know myself I could be the biggest sellout there is. There's just no trade up there that's that's worth taking. And so mostly people are

00:39:25.200 --> 00:39:34.310
trying to stay relevant and get reelected, right? That makes perfect sense, right? Everybody's looking out for themselves in a sense. But you would think at some point that even that would

00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:42.550
lose its appeal. when you look around your town or your community and you see that like oh man by not really

00:39:42.560 --> 00:39:51.109
benefiting the people it's every like it's all falling apart you know by not really benefiting the country it's falling apart and I'm starting to sound like a downer again I don't want

00:39:51.119 --> 00:40:01.190
to do that it should it should but take me through take me through what you're talking about how you put a bill up and it doesn't get labeled yours that so it's plagiarism or I don't understand what you're saying and then if you do

00:40:01.200 --> 00:40:10.790
get something done by working inside of the system they'll just you won't get any credit for it. So, for instance, uh when Ron Paul left Congress, I came into

00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:19.829
Congress and I introduced a lot of Ron Paul's bills and one was the IND industrial hemp farming act

00:40:19.839 --> 00:40:29.829
because it was illegal. They treated hemp just like marijuana. It was illegal to grow it according to the federal government. Uh, so I introduced that bill and I got a lot of co-sponsors and

00:40:29.839 --> 00:40:37.910
I I figured out a way to work with Democrats and get it into the farm bill. Now, it was a Republican farm bill that

00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:47.109
I got it into, but I needed Democrat and Republican votes to do it and I got it in the farm bill, but now like people online say, "Oh, Congressman Massie,"

00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:56.230
and it became law, by the way, and people can grow industrial hemp in all 50 states. That's the end of, you know, that's the rest of the story. Oh, yeah. A lot of chicks that don't wear deodorant are working on those working

00:40:56.240 --> 00:41:07.910
on those places. And no offense ladies, I don't mind it. But yeah, no, I'm glad that we have another product in our country, you know, right? Um, and so that became law.

00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:16.390
That was one of my bills, but nobody ever gives me credit for it because it wasn't a separate bill that said, and by the way, I voted for that crap sandwich,

00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:25.910
the the farm bill, which is a big giant bill. And then I took crap for voting for that because it had my thing in it, but now I don't get credit for it. But

00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:34.790
I've I haven't particularly had bills where somebody took my name off them and put somebody else's name, but my colleagues have. Okay. So So you haven't

00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:43.190
had that exact thing happen to you from Mike Johnson? No. But you've seen it happen. Yeah. You're saying and if it did, I wouldn't care that much. I mean, if it's a good bill, make it happen. But

00:41:43.200 --> 00:41:53.990
a lot of people, you know, they they need to go back to their district and say, "I got this done." Oh, I see. So, a lot of times people don't know from the um from their

00:41:54.000 --> 00:42:02.069
Congress people or their representatives that they actually got this thing done. Right. Right. So, there's a communication issue there. And then there's another thing that happens like

00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:11.190
some congressman gets to DC and they have this bill they wanted to pass even before he was a congressman and they say, "We'll put your name on it and then

00:42:11.200 --> 00:42:19.349
you'll get credit for it." And then the congressman has no idea about the subject or anything. So I had there was

00:42:19.359 --> 00:42:28.230
a bill that came to the floor. It was about opioids. Okay? And I voted against it. And the sponsor of the bill comes up to me and says, "Why did you vote

00:42:28.240 --> 00:42:36.550
against my bill?" And I said, "Well, I'm not against research or things like that at the federal level, but this is basically a form of Obamacare." And I

00:42:36.560 --> 00:42:45.589
thought we were against that, like because this had treatment and stuff which should be handled at the state level. And he looked at me, he said, "You're right." He said, "I'd vote against this, too, if it weren't my

00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:55.670
bill." He said, "The leadership gave it to me and told me to bring it to the floor, and it would help me get reelected." Wow.

00:42:55.680 --> 00:43:05.589
I swear to the Lord above, that is an exact conversation I had on the floor. Yeah. Oh, I believe he did. Congressman from Wisconsin. He's still there. He is?

00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:15.829
Yeah. White guy, I bet, huh? Oh, yeah. That was a guess, dude. That was a guess, by the way. But not to pick on him, because that year we passed like 38

00:43:15.839 --> 00:43:26.550
opioid bills and they're all redundant. They just gave everybody that were trying to get reelected, they give them an opioid bill. Oh yeah. I mean, they were renewing more prescriptions for opioid bills than they were opioids.

00:43:26.560 --> 00:43:35.990
That's the craziest like part of And the Sackler family never even went to jail. And some people believe that the Sackler family should be electrocuted. Allegedly. I don't know

00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:45.910
them. And I don't even know if electricity would work on their sick evil bodies. Um, is that slander for saying that? Can I go to jail for saying that? That might be a death threat, huh? You can, but I can't. So

00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:56.950
maybe I should say it. There's something in the Constitution called the speech or debate clause. And so I can go to the floor of the House of Representatives and lie. I can tell every lie I want and

00:43:56.960 --> 00:44:06.309
nobody can do anything about it. And um, it's called the speech or debate clause. Our staff Yeah. Look this up. The speech or debate clause found in article 1,

00:44:06.319 --> 00:44:15.430
section six of the US Constitution protects members of Congress from being questioned in any other place for their speech or debate in either house. So, let me read it again. Protects members

00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:25.030
of Congress from being questioned in any other place, which means you can't be questioned in a courtroom. You can't be sued. You can't be Now, read the next

00:44:25.040 --> 00:44:33.670
sentence, though, because it's there's a good reason for it. This clause rooted in historical struggles for parliamentary independence aims to safeguard the independence and integrity

00:44:33.680 --> 00:44:43.430
of the legislative branch by preventing interference from the executive or judicial branches. So uh

00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:53.910
so when people you know even our founders this is a this is a hard pill to swallow okay but even it's a bit confused at this moment. Well, even our founders thought that some there were

00:44:53.920 --> 00:45:03.270
some laws that shouldn't apply to congressmen because if they did, they would get abused and like a Democrat president would arrest members of

00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:11.829
Congress for saying things on the floor of the house because it h that's what the king did back in England. The king would arrest members of parliament if he

00:45:11.839 --> 00:45:20.069
didn't like what they said. Ah, I see what you're saying. Or you could get a private individual to sue a member of Congress for something they said and

00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:28.230
then that would uh basically freeze the debate and members of Congress would be afraid to speak. They would send their

00:45:28.240 --> 00:45:36.870
speeches to lawyers before they said them, you know, if this didn't exist. I see what you're saying. So this is kind of a fascinating little part of our

00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:45.670
Constitution. And even though it seems wrong to give members of Congress extra first amendment protection, the founders

00:45:45.680 --> 00:45:53.990
thought this was the best way to do it. So you could go to court right now and lie on the stand. No, I can lie about

00:45:54.000 --> 00:46:04.710
anything, but I got to be on the floor of the house. Uh or it has to be attached to my official business. So I'm probably covered on social media. Uh,

00:46:04.720 --> 00:46:14.309
and I could just say defamatory things about you. I could release natural national secrets. Um, and and this also

00:46:14.319 --> 00:46:23.270
covers my staff as well. God, interesting. But can you but am I going to go to jail for calling the Sackler say got electrocuted? Yeah,

00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:32.470
probably. So, what I have to do to bleep it out? No, you need to run for Congress. Oh, that's hilarious, dude. And I only say I

00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:41.670
don't really even say those words myself. I just say that on the uh this it's the spirit of hundreds of thousands of opioid addicts who died channeling through me for just a brief second.

00:46:41.680 --> 00:46:51.750
Forgive me. I'm back. All right. Um it starts to feel like neither party

00:46:51.760 --> 00:47:01.750
Wait. So could I I'm thinking about this. Could we ask could Mike Johnson uh put a bill on the floor about the omnibus thing?

00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:11.109
Yeah. And then we could see who would vote for it and vote against it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. He could, but he's not going to, right? Because it would be too

00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:19.750
dangerous. It's It's way too dangerous. I mean, the lobbyists love it that way. They they love the opakeness of that black box that Americans can't look into

00:47:19.760 --> 00:47:28.230
it and see what's going on because they're inside the black box. They get to they get to craft language language and special provisions in those big

00:47:28.240 --> 00:47:37.030
giant bills. and they're so big and we don't we're not given time to read them. But you got to remember the like a lot of my colleagues wouldn't read these bills even if they were given three

00:47:37.040 --> 00:47:45.829
months to read them. What they're what they're doing by rushing these bills through is they're not whoing the congressman. They're whoingoing the public. Of course. No, I think it makes

00:47:45.839 --> 00:47:55.030
perfect sense. It's like cuz we just send one set of eyes and brain up there to handle something, you know, or a couple sets if you have a few reps and then it's but it's so much information

00:47:55.040 --> 00:48:04.790
at once. It's all it's it's all the same thing. It's literally like a bus passing by. It's like with a car passing by, you can get an idea of what's on it. You can look at the wheels. You can check the

00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:13.510
exhaust. You might be able to see who's in there. But when a bus goes by, you're like, "Fuck, I don't know." You know, was a driver awake? You know, that's kind of like, you know, that's how it that's how it certainly starts to appear

00:48:13.520 --> 00:48:22.630
appear. My question and the windows are painted black on the bus. Yeah, dude. And somebody wrote just married to a trans man on the windows with chalk or

00:48:22.640 --> 00:48:31.109
whatever with window paint. Um, here's my question. Is anybody representing the people anymore? Cuz it kind of feels like it used to feel like

00:48:31.119 --> 00:48:40.230
you the parties were against each other and now it feels like it's the government versus the people. That's what it feels like. I think it is. I

00:48:40.240 --> 00:48:49.670
mean, I call it the uni party. Um uh last year Marjorie Taylor Green and I introduced a resolution to oust Mike

00:48:49.680 --> 00:48:58.150
Johnson after Mike Johnson uh put a bill on the floor and was a tiebreaking vote to send more money to Ukraine. After he

00:48:58.160 --> 00:49:07.910
passed another omnibus after he passed another bill to spy on Americans using mostly Democrat votes because a lot of Republicans are waking up to that and

00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:16.230
didn't vote for it. after he did like three or four really bad things. Marjorie and I put a resolution on the floor, which you think are bad things, right? I think they're bad things.

00:49:16.240 --> 00:49:24.870
Spying spying on Americans, sending all the money to Ukraine. Yeah, I think they are. I think they're not Republican priorities. And so, and he's a

00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:33.109
Republican speaker. So, we put a resolution on the floor to vacate the speaker's office. And what does that mean? To get a new speaker. Get a new

00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:42.950
speaker. Okay. And um typically no Democrat will vote for that. And if you if he doesn't have enough Republicans to sustain that vote, he will lose and you

00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:52.630
get a new speaker. Why would no Democrat vote for that? Well, for the first time in history, they did like they did vote to keep Mike Johnson because the it was

00:49:52.640 --> 00:50:01.750
as good as they've ever had it. They were getting everything they wanted. You believe he was helping their party? Yeah, he was helping their party. So, they kept him in power. So, it is really

00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:10.390
hard to change things. You can occasionally get people to try, but the consequences of trying and losing can be

00:50:10.400 --> 00:50:18.549
great. Like they call up all the lobbyists and say, "Quit giving money," right to that member of Congress. They'll call up donors in your district.

00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:27.910
They'll call up constituents and have constituents call you up. Or the the new thing recently is to fund social media campaigns.

00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:37.750
um the NRCC, National Republican Congressional Committee, they spend money on Twitter influencers who then do things against

00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:47.349
who knows what. I mean, they're directing them. That part isn't transparent, but u it's directed toward me, for instance. Our own party is is

00:50:47.359 --> 00:50:55.829
coordinating efforts against me. Well, then at that point, that's what I'm saying. It's there's a party that's it's them against you, which is okay. I've got a thick skin, right? But I'm just

00:50:55.839 --> 00:51:05.030
saying it feels like it's it feels like it's you guys are playing this game, but it's all against the voter. None of it is for the voter anymore. It doesn't you know what I'm saying? It's like it feels

00:51:05.040 --> 00:51:14.950
like I don't know. It just feels like it's it's it's the voter against the politicians and it's it just starts to feel really really scary for sure. Um

00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:24.150
have you thought about becoming an independent or is that not a is that too is that is that is that death? I I've thought about it a lot and um one of the

00:51:24.160 --> 00:51:32.870
things that surprised me when I got to Congress is there's two of everything. So there's two cloak rooms. There's a Democrat cloak room. Say that part

00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:42.790
again. There's a Democrat cloak room cloak room and a Republican cloak room. This is like when you show up to vote, there's a little clubhouse, two little clubouses attached to Congress. You can

00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:52.150
go back there and get a hot dog and a hot ham and cheese and ice cream sandwich. Oh yeah. Get a hot blonde, too, huh? That is our cloak room right there on the right. Is that really?

00:51:52.160 --> 00:52:03.270
Yeah. You go back there. Although there's some computers as well. That's looking in one direction. If you look in the other direction, there's a sandwich. They're not showing the sandwich bar. Um

00:52:03.280 --> 00:52:11.670
Oh, yeah. I'd love Oh, there's a sandwich bar. Yeah, that's it. Oh, that's it. Yeah. Now, they're old, huh? That's the Democrat cloak room. The

00:52:11.680 --> 00:52:21.589
Republican one looks just the same. Okay. Okay. But here's the thing. A little mortadella, huh? There's only two cloak rooms. So if you were truly

00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:30.790
independent and you came to Congress, there'd be nowhere to get a hot dog or to call people go in there and call their lobbyist friends like during

00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:39.349
votes. You'll get a call and and they'll say, "Hey, don't dare vote for this." Or or maybe they'll call up a member of Congress will go to the cloak room and

00:52:39.359 --> 00:52:47.990
call and ask for advice. Any case, there's also things called backrooms on every committee. You've heard of backroom deals. Mhm. I I couldn't believe it. When I got to Congress,

00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:56.630
people are using the word back room because there are back rooms behind the committee rooms where you go back and do your huddle, but there's only two

00:52:56.640 --> 00:53:05.270
huddles. There's the Democrat huddle and the Republican huddle, and there's only two back rooms. So, I I say if you were an independent, you're going against the

00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:14.069
architecture. It's not just tradition. It's built into marble and oak. There can only be two parties. That's how

00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:23.589
strong they have put it in, you know. And if you're bipartisan, that means you you like both parties. I say that if you're I'm not bipartisan. I'm

00:53:23.599 --> 00:53:32.549
transparent. Trans means you can't identify with either some days. I don't know which cloak room to go into. Some days they don't want me in either cloak room. So,

00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:43.030
I feel like I'm a transartisan. Well, at least you can just be out in the van outside, you know. That's right. Some days I have gone out to the camper and just like drink some raw milk and just

00:53:43.040 --> 00:53:53.829
be like, "We're so screwed. Let's go back in and and try it." But I think it is hard. It would be really hard to have an independent party. Um or to get

00:53:53.839 --> 00:54:03.910
elected as an independent. I think yes, but but never forget this. There's really like six parties up there in DC and they've been shoehorned into two

00:54:03.920 --> 00:54:13.190
different cloak rooms, right? And so you got to pick which and so either way if you had a separate party you're kind of still in one cloak room or the other. He's kind of kind of still in one huddle

00:54:13.200 --> 00:54:22.309
or the other. Yeah. So there's um there's a a guy from Maine. His name's Angus King. He's a senator and he runs as an independent and he and he gets

00:54:22.319 --> 00:54:30.870
elected as an independent and then he goes in the Democrat cloak room. So yeah, that's him. Oh yeah, he definitely looks like a main guy. So he gets

00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:40.549
elected undeniably wears a raincoat at night. You may you may have heard the term rhino, Republican in name only. I have a friend who calls him an I know an

00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:49.990
independent and name only because he gets elected as an independent and and Bernie Sanders did this too and then caucuses with the Democrats. You know,

00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:58.710
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00:57:37.839 --> 00:57:46.549
Um, so one of the ways, and I wrote some of my questions down today. One of the big things that people talk about all the time these days are lobbyists, right? And lobbies and how much of a an

00:57:46.559 --> 00:57:55.910
effect that they have on our uh elected officials. How much is it? I mean, how much are these packs really controlling things?

00:57:55.920 --> 00:58:04.630
Um, quite a bit. There's some aspects of lobbying that people don't think about. Like for instance, I think there are just as many lobbyists over at the White

00:58:04.640 --> 00:58:14.630
House as there are in Congress because a lot So what do you mean that some people are almost as elected lobbyists? Well, no. Um they spend their time talking to

00:58:14.640 --> 00:58:24.789
White House officials because even though we're the legislators, the White House sends recommendations for bills. And if the same party is in power in the

00:58:24.799 --> 00:58:34.950
White House and in Congress, like the big beautiful bill for instance, the the legislation can initiate over in the White House. And so lobbyists, I'm just

00:58:34.960 --> 00:58:46.230
saying if you think of lobbyists talking to your senator and your congressman, they're all over DC. They're talking to bureaucrats. They're talking to people uh cabinet secretaries because they know

00:58:46.240 --> 00:58:57.430
it's uh sometimes easier to get written into the budget if they're over there lobbying. Another thing to know about lobbyists, I mean there's lobbyists for the Alzheimer's uh you know victims or

00:58:57.440 --> 00:59:07.430
people who have Alzheimer's. There are lobbyist Yeah. There are lobbyists for people with rare blood disorders. Okay. There's lobbyists for the Concrete

00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:17.430
Association. If if there is a group of people, they have lobbyists. And so there and some people's uh enemies

00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:25.990
lobbyist enemies are other people's lobbying friends. Like there are pro- second amendment lobbyists who are up there fighting for the second amendment.

00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:36.230
And you know the Democrats hate those lobbyists but those are lobbyists the Republicans kind of like. Mhm. Um, so the question is, you know, and sometimes

00:59:36.240 --> 00:59:44.710
my constituents, they don't know how to get to DC and how to talk to all the congressmen from Kentucky and both senators and so they hire lobbyists to

00:59:44.720 --> 00:59:53.430
come and do that. Um, I don't know that I would outlaw lobbyists. Sometimes they're actually helpful. Like let's say

00:59:53.440 --> 01:00:04.710
the concrete lobbyist. You got the you got the concrete lobbyist fighting with the asphalt lobbyist on what's gonna be the road surface. Okay. Well, if all you

01:00:04.720 --> 01:00:13.990
hear is from the asphalt lobbyists, you would just buy asphalt and then you hear from the concrete lobbyists. And so it's really to get to the truth, you need

01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:22.470
adversarial opinions. Um the the problem is I wouldn't blame the lobbyists for advocating for their

01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:31.270
group of people. I would blame the congressmen who basically put that crap in the bills. Um and again I would go

01:00:31.280 --> 01:00:40.870
back to separating the votes. How do you know that your congressman is sold out to big pharma for instance if big pharma

01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:52.630
is only one on one10enth of the bill, right? And there's payraises for veterans in there. Ah, so they can hide the fact that they're selling out over here by uh buying in over here. Yeah.

01:00:52.640 --> 01:01:02.870
God, it almost sounds fun. Now, there's there's one group of lobbyists I don't think really should exist or should have

01:01:02.880 --> 01:01:12.470
access to to US offices and those are foreign lobbyists. Yeah. Yeah. I've I've heard you talk about this before and I've heard a lot of people are talking about it now. become a hot topic and um

01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:21.589
APAC is one of the big ones and is it that stands for American Israeli uh political it's not a it's not a a

01:01:21.599 --> 01:01:30.470
fund it didn't start out as a super PAC so um political action committee public affairs committee there we go public affairs committee American Israel public

01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:39.109
affairs committee now a lot of times p stands for political action committee like you said but these guys were started before there were political action committees so it stands for

01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:49.109
public affairs committee Got it. And um they bragged that they've spent more on elections than any other lobbying group

01:01:49.119 --> 01:01:59.270
in the world um in the United States. In the United States in you know in Congress. Okay. They now do have a political action committee and I forget

01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:09.030
what the the name of it is. So Apac has a subsidiary that spends money to back to basically crack heads and of

01:02:09.040 --> 01:02:19.430
congressmen. So there's two kinds of by the way there are two kinds of lobbying groups. There's access lobbying. That's where they're all your friends. They're

01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:27.910
never mean to you. They would even if they don't like you, they'll buy you a steak dinner and they'll try to get you to hear out their point of view. and

01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:37.990
they figure as long as I can get in that person's office, I'm I'm doing well for the people I'm lobbying for. But then there are confrontational lobbyists like

01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:47.349
Apac and Apac has transitioned into a confrontational lobbying group where if you don't do what they want, they come after you. Wow. And what does it look

01:02:47.359 --> 01:02:56.710
like? They spent $400,000 against me in my last election and they are basically advertised themselves as just all things

01:02:56.720 --> 01:03:05.829
Israel. They are lobbying for more money to go to Israel, which all the money we give to Israel is military money. So,

01:03:05.839 --> 01:03:14.150
they are basically lobbyists for the military-industrial complex. Got it. Understood. So, and and I'll ask you some questions about that, the military-industrial complex in a few

01:03:14.160 --> 01:03:23.430
minutes. But do you feel like Israel is a fair ally? Are they a good ally for us? Well, or is that too general of a question? Well, I think it doesn't

01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:32.950
matter. Like there's no big giant Great Brit Britain lobby. There's no Australian lobby. There's no German lobby. Oh, the other countries don't have them. No, no, not like this. This

01:03:32.960 --> 01:03:41.029
is singular. This is unique. Um I mean, if you're an ally, why wouldn't we work with you? Why do you have to convince us

01:03:41.039 --> 01:03:49.349
that you're our ally? Why do you have to basically go into every congressional office and convince them? And it's because they want to keep the money

01:03:49.359 --> 01:03:57.430
flowing and that they've got a good return on their investment. I mean, we send more foreign aid to Israel than to

01:03:57.440 --> 01:04:06.309
any other country. Yeah. They're, you know, like 10 million people or something. Yeah. I think Tennessee I don't know the population to Tennessee,

01:04:06.319 --> 01:04:15.910
but it's probably about, you know, on that order. Yeah. I think this year they said we spent like 12 billion, but that's not actual dollars. It's in military aid, right? Yeah. It's um well

01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:25.589
it's it's dollars that come out of the treasury. Yeah. But it's not like we give them it's a it's a gift certificate that's redeemable at Lockheed Martin and

01:04:25.599 --> 01:04:33.829
your local Rathon, you know. Okay, got it. So that's kind of how that works. Yeah. Okay, got it. Um why Yeah. Why do

01:04:33.839 --> 01:04:42.470
they have this uh carve out that's just for them? Like what like what do we get from Israel? Do you feel like

01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:51.349
uh we got a lot of countries that hate us is one of the things we get. Um well, especially right now with this stuff in Gaza, it's I think it's Israel's it's

01:04:51.359 --> 01:05:00.150
one of the worst PR campaigns I've ever seen in my life. If they're even I have doesn't make any sense to me. It's like I I just don't it gives their government

01:05:00.160 --> 01:05:11.270
this extremely evil look to me, you know, and I think to a lot of people, you know. Well, rough numbers, there are two million people in Gaza and 50,000

01:05:11.280 --> 01:05:21.349
have been killed. That's two and a half%. Like, they've killed one in 40 people in Gaza. If you if you did that in the United States, if you did two and

01:05:21.359 --> 01:05:30.069
a half% of of 350 million, it'd be almost 10 million people dead. Yeah. In the United States, you everybody in Gaza

01:05:30.079 --> 01:05:38.470
is at at this point related to somebody who's been killed. like at least the first cousin you had killed and then if you say how many have been maimed it's

01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:47.109
probably three or four times that. So everybody in Gaza knows people who've been killed and maimed and we're supporting it, right? That's the al the

01:05:47.119 --> 01:05:56.549
also the part that makes it really tough sometimes to just be a person. It's like we our tax money is going towards this. But I just hope that people in some of

01:05:56.559 --> 01:06:05.990
these other countries know that, you know, it's not regular everyday people who would want to do these things. You know, that it's like government's making these choices and it's uh corporate

01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:15.910
interests that make these choices. Um how do we how would we stop it? Well, Do we need this connection with Israel? What is it? No one ever explains what it's for. I feel like, right, that would

01:06:15.920 --> 01:06:24.309
help everybody have a much better understanding, you know, because it starts to feel like America is just a shell company, uh, an LLC for Israel.

01:06:24.319 --> 01:06:33.750
That's what it starts to feel like a lot of times, you know. Um, do you feel like that that's realistic or do you feel like that that's off base? I would I wouldn't send him a dime. Like that's my

01:06:33.760 --> 01:06:41.829
position. I don't think whatever we're getting isn't worth it. And uh don't ask me to articulate the benefit because I

01:06:41.839 --> 01:06:51.349
think the cost is greater than the benefit. You could everybody in Gaza is at this point has to hate Israel, right? And by extension those bombs when they

01:06:51.359 --> 01:06:59.510
see American politicians go over there and like sign the freaking bombs that are going to kill women and children. Uh what do we actually there was just a

01:06:59.520 --> 01:07:09.349
clip with Ted Cruz that came up. Can you see if if you can find that Trevan where Yeah. where Tucker Carlson was interviewing Ted Cruz. Let me see. This is a scary interview. During the Tucker

01:07:09.359 --> 01:07:18.309
Carlson interview with Ted Cruz, it's confirmed Israel's version of the CIA called Msad Spies. Oh, it's about spying. It's like what we get. Let's Let's just watch it for a second. Yeah.

01:07:18.319 --> 01:07:27.349
Does Msad share all of its intelligence with us? Oh, probably not. But they share a lot. Um, we don't share all of our intelligence with them, but we share a lot. It's a close allian. Do they spy

01:07:27.359 --> 01:07:35.750
domestically in the United States? Oh, they probably do, and we do as well. And and friends and allies spy on each other. And and I assume I assume all of our allies spy on us. That That's okay

01:07:35.760 --> 01:07:44.950
with you. You know what? One of the things about being a conservative is that you're not naive and utopian. You you don't think humans are all part of the reason

01:07:44.960 --> 01:07:53.109
socialism doesn't work is is the the the mantra from each according to his abilities to each according to his needs doesn't work. As a conservative, I

01:07:53.119 --> 01:08:02.789
assume people act in their rational self-interest. It's conservative to pay people to spy on you. It's conservative to recognize that human beings act in their own self-interest and every one of

01:08:02.799 --> 01:08:12.470
our friends spies on us. And I'm not Do you like it? That's my question. I'm not asking whether they have motive to do it. Of course they do. I understand that. And I way I'm not mad at them. And

01:08:12.480 --> 01:08:20.550
you're an American lawmaker. So I just want want to know Hold on. I want to know your attitude. You said that your guiding principle in fact the only

01:08:20.560 --> 01:08:29.349
principle the only criterion I said guiding the overwhelming. I wouldn't say only. Is is it in America's interest? Is it in America's interest for Israel to spy on us, including on the president?

01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:39.590
Um, it is in America's interest to be closely allied with Israel because we get he what do we get? That's the thing.

01:08:39.600 --> 01:08:48.950
It's painful to watch that. So when I'm in a room with somebody and they say, "Can I talk to you?" You know, just frankly is anybody listening, I say,

01:08:48.960 --> 01:08:57.110
"Well, there's three nation states plus our own in my phone." Yeah. There's there's going to be Russia, China, and Israel. They're in our phone. No, not

01:08:57.120 --> 01:09:06.550
yours. Like it's a lot of effort to anybody can be hacked. Okay. Oh, I thought one of the reason I got to go to Qatar recently. I wonder if they hacked my phone. I thought they were good. I I

01:09:06.560 --> 01:09:15.269
don't know if that's crazy. I think it's probably continuously hacked. Okay. That's what I'm think. I It just seems like everything's hacked now. I get scared, you know? But but um if if

01:09:15.279 --> 01:09:24.390
you're not I play the Israeli national anthem every 45 minutes. Look, Amazon and Facebook know what you're saying in your phone, right? But probably Israel

01:09:24.400 --> 01:09:33.030
and and Russia and China aren't devoting that effort and internet traffic which can become detectable

01:09:33.040 --> 01:09:43.430
to Yeah. Right. But um you're probably you know why wouldn't you be trying to hear what the 535 people in Washington

01:09:43.440 --> 01:09:53.669
DC who vote on bills what they are thinking. M um and then you you know also there there are um allegedly some

01:09:53.679 --> 01:10:02.790
congressmen who indulge in insider trading but I would guess that there are probably some hackers who are also inside a congressman's phones trying to

01:10:02.800 --> 01:10:11.910
figure out what the sentiment is in Washington DC and then trading on that. Wow. So there's always this extra layer kind of going along going on it feels

01:10:11.920 --> 01:10:20.550
like. Um but what do you think we get from Israel? I think it's just a big question. I think it's okay as a regular person and I might get killed or something by msad or something, but what

01:10:20.560 --> 01:10:28.630
do we get from them as a country? Like is there I think there's just that's a big question America has right now. Is there something we just don't see? And if there is, just tell us what it is so

01:10:28.640 --> 01:10:39.590
we can um operate accordingly, you know. No, I I think they're the best u lobbying group in Washington DC. And the

01:10:39.600 --> 01:10:48.709
reason they can do it is you have uh dual citizens, people who are American and Israeli who are allowed to give

01:10:48.719 --> 01:10:58.550
money into American politics and because they're American and by virtue of that, you're allowed to participate. But if you're a foreign national, you're not allowed to. So they're one of the few

01:10:58.560 --> 01:11:07.189
countries that can donate money to what? To super PACs, to members of Congress. Other countries are not allowed to do that. Well, I mean they could if you

01:11:07.199 --> 01:11:16.550
were dual citizens, but there's not so many dual citizens as it were. But is but could somebody be a Russian and American dual citizen and serve in and

01:11:16.560 --> 01:11:27.430
serve in uh in a Congress or Sure. and donate to congressman? Um, by the way, I have introduced a bill that would require members of Congress to disclose

01:11:27.440 --> 01:11:35.750
if they are dual citizens. And I think that's only fair, right? Because right now you could have allegiance to another country, not just the USA. Correct. We

01:11:35.760 --> 01:11:44.310
swear an allegiance when you're a member of Congress to the Constitution. I always like to point this out. We're we're not swearing it to the country. We're not swearing it to the president.

01:11:44.320 --> 01:11:53.189
We're not swearing it to our party. We swear it to the Constitution. And uh other countries have constitutions, too. What if you've taken allegiance to two

01:11:53.199 --> 01:12:02.550
different constitutions? Like the American I'm not and I'm not even my bill wouldn't even keep you from being a member of Congress. It would just say you have to disclose it if you are. And

01:12:02.560 --> 01:12:11.110
it and and by the way, it wouldn't necessarily just be Israel members of Congress who are also uh citizens of

01:12:11.120 --> 01:12:22.229
Israel. It could be other countries as well. I just think it creates a conflict of interest. Uh and you know, I have to disclose yearly which stocks I own. I

01:12:22.239 --> 01:12:32.870
have to disclose all my personal financial information so that the voters can uh decide if I am unduly influenced

01:12:32.880 --> 01:12:43.030
by that conflict of interest. And so that's the structure of my bill. My bill just it's a an election disclosure. Okay. You're running for Congress. Bring it up. Tell us tell us which countries

01:12:43.040 --> 01:12:52.950
you are uh a Representative Thomas Massie announces the introduction of HR 2356 the dual loyalty disclosure act.

01:12:52.960 --> 01:13:03.110
Representative Massiey's legislation amends a federal election campaign act to require candidates for federal office to disclose both their possession of dual citizenship and also the foreign

01:13:03.120 --> 01:13:12.870
country in which their dual citizenship is held. So right now we don't have to no people don't have to disclose. Nope. They don't. What? You would have no

01:13:12.880 --> 01:13:21.510
idea. Have you seen spies like us, dude? It's also, by the way, it's a safety net. By the way, if you if something

01:13:21.520 --> 01:13:29.590
went really bad, you could just go live in your other country. I think you should be all in for this country. I agree. This ain't the hokeyp

01:13:29.600 --> 01:13:38.149
pokey, dude. I think you got to have both feet in or both feet out. You know what I'm saying, dude? I I just

01:13:38.159 --> 01:13:48.310
and but but but any country this could happen. It could be. So that's not just Israel. Correct. It could be any country. Could be. But Israel is the only one that has a big lobby. So for is

01:13:48.320 --> 01:13:58.229
there the Russian like Russia pack or whatever? No, there is not. Like I say, there's not even Australia Pack or or Great Britain pack.

01:13:58.239 --> 01:14:06.310
I mean because they're natural allies. Why would they have to lobby Congress? They're also not on our TE like asking

01:14:06.320 --> 01:14:17.270
for money. Yeah. But I think it's also there's this it's a weird amalgamation of of combined interests. There's a military-industrial complex that is all

01:14:17.280 --> 01:14:27.430
in for everything Apac is for. And and before I banned Apac from my office, we used to have conversations that would go something like this. Oh, you should be

01:14:27.440 --> 01:14:36.310
for the foreign aid that goes to Israel because it all comes back to the United States in the form of uh military spending. We're buying it all from

01:14:36.320 --> 01:14:44.870
American contractors and be like, "No, that's not a convincing argument to me." Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't even know what

01:14:44.880 --> 01:14:52.950
it's about, but it seems like to me. Um, how how does America make money off of war, right? Like I get

01:14:52.960 --> 01:15:03.590
that, you know, we sell things this and that, but how is that such a business, right? You know, it's like, how do we let this happen? Well, the the answer is America doesn't make money off of war. A

01:15:03.600 --> 01:15:11.910
few people in America do make money off of war, and they make a lot of money off of war. So, they want the the music to keep going. They don't want the music to

01:15:11.920 --> 01:15:20.070
stop, right? And as soon as um you know Biden was serious about getting out of Afghanistan

01:15:20.080 --> 01:15:30.229
um and did get us out of Afghanistan and we were spending by the way we were still spending $50 billion a year in Afghanistan after 20 years. As soon as

01:15:30.239 --> 01:15:39.990
he got us out of there, guess what? We start spending an average of $50 billion a year in Ukraine. And now that that's winding down, guess what? This thing in

01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:48.310
Iran is heating up. And regardless of whether our troops engage directly, those are all American munitions. And

01:15:48.320 --> 01:15:57.669
those stocks are, you know, the people who run those companies are excited that now, you know, as soon as we deplete our

01:15:57.679 --> 01:16:05.830
stock piles, we're going to have to fill them back up. Like, it's not like they're holding a bunch of inventory, but the US government does. Those are

01:16:05.840 --> 01:16:14.870
ostensibly, those are weapons that are supposed to defend us um that are now being used. And so they know we'll buy them back. And I bet I I have this

01:16:14.880 --> 01:16:23.030
theory that there's about $50 billion a year of things that need to get blown up and replaced in order for that segment

01:16:23.040 --> 01:16:31.990
of the economy to stay healthy. And then there was a real push to get out of Ukraine to quit spending money there.

01:16:32.000 --> 01:16:41.189
And we almost succeeded. Like I said before, the tiebreaking vote was Mike Johnson. It was the bill passed by just one vote. And a lot of times the speaker

01:16:41.199 --> 01:16:50.070
doesn't even vote, but he voted in that case to make sure that Ukraine got that money. But isn't it I mean it's also I

01:16:50.080 --> 01:16:59.510
think it's admirable that a guy is willing to go against their own party's interest, right? Like that part to me seems like a part of like you know what I'm saying like not just to be in line

01:16:59.520 --> 01:17:08.229
all the time with everything. Well, that could be me sometimes. Right. Right. That's what I'm saying. Oh, totally. Yeah. It's that's what I that I think that's a little bit of the thing I don't get

01:17:08.239 --> 01:17:16.630
about some of the stuff whenever we talk about Mike Johnson is like if he like there's admiration in going against like um just what your party's going to do.

01:17:16.640 --> 01:17:25.270
Right. Right. If you're if you're staying true to your party's principles, I think it's admirable. But when you're betraying your party's principles, I

01:17:25.280 --> 01:17:35.590
don't think it is because you've campaigned on one thing and now you're doing something different. Got it. And and the reality is the speaker has so much power up there. he's entraining

01:17:35.600 --> 01:17:44.070
dozens of more people who rely on him to get reelected. And the the by the way the lobbyists in addition to focusing on the executive branch, they spend a lot

01:17:44.080 --> 01:17:52.390
of their effort on the um on just the speaker in the speaker's office. What do you what do you think's kept us in

01:17:52.400 --> 01:18:01.189
Ukraine so long? I mean, obviously, you know, we want to be supportive of people that are struggling, right? We want to help out people. you know, it feels like as an American especially, that's part

01:18:01.199 --> 01:18:10.870
of like our creed and what you feel in your heart is like if you can be helpful to another group, right? Um, so I certainly see that as something that we

01:18:10.880 --> 01:18:20.149
want to keep involved in foreign conflicts even though a lot of times I'm like, why are we involved in these conflicts over there? What is it I think that I don't understand maybe about the

01:18:20.159 --> 01:18:29.910
um about Russia and Ukraine or do you think that that's part of just the military-industrial tab that we have to fill? I think we have agitated Russia to

01:18:29.920 --> 01:18:38.070
the point by expanding NATO. Um we we just keep adding countries closer and closer to their backyard that are in a

01:18:38.080 --> 01:18:47.830
military alliance with us. And um the situation in Ukraine, we also toppled their government in 2014. The the United

01:18:47.840 --> 01:18:56.229
States did. We did. Yeah. Bring that up. Yeah. Bring that up. you can uh see that the the government

01:18:56.239 --> 01:19:06.950
changed there and we we had our hands all over that. Let me see. In 2014, Ukraine experienced a period of intense political upheaval culminating in the removal of President Victor Yanukovich.

01:19:06.960 --> 01:19:15.669
Uh the event often referred to as the revolution of dignity or Eurom Maidan involved widespread protests against Yanukovich's policies, particularly his

01:19:15.679 --> 01:19:24.149
decision to reject a trade agreement with the European Union in favor of closer ties with Russia. Um, so we didn't want them to have closer ties with Russia, so we overthrew them. Yeah.

01:19:24.159 --> 01:19:33.990
I mean, we went in and fmented those protests. Um, our CIA did, our State Department, um, you know, Victoria

01:19:34.000 --> 01:19:44.630
Nuland was part of that. So, this was just another thing. You think we started laying the seeds in advance to get to get to this point? Yeah. I don't think it would have ever happened if if we

01:19:44.640 --> 01:19:53.110
weren't involved in fomenting this and then talking about bringing them into NATO after we poked Putin in the eye here and and the whole point was just to

01:19:53.120 --> 01:20:02.310
get to a war to have helped fill out the tab. You're saying? Yeah. Yeah. That's and that's a part of it. Like that's that's sort of Massy's law. There has to be another there has to be $50 billion

01:20:02.320 --> 01:20:11.270
of stuff that gets blown up that is made by American uh military industrial complex in order to keep them going. And

01:20:11.280 --> 01:20:19.590
if it's not, they'll they'll just spend more effort in making that happen. Got it. Rather than go out of business.

01:20:19.600 --> 01:20:27.990
Yeah. Oh, I think once you get used to something, you get used to it. Oh, here's the thing. I was going to say before when when we got close to not

01:20:28.000 --> 01:20:36.229
funding Ukraine under Mike Johnson, um the Biden administration sent a letter to Congress to each of us.

01:20:36.239 --> 01:20:45.350
Everybody in Congress got one of these letters listing all the states who had they they call it the defense industrial base now because military-industrial

01:20:45.360 --> 01:20:56.870
complex has a bad connotation rebranding. Yeah. So it's DIB DIB. The defense industrial base. They showed how every almost every state in the union

01:20:56.880 --> 01:21:06.310
benefits from military spending and why you should and that was their argument. Not that there was some noble cause or to help out a struggling group of people

01:21:06.320 --> 01:21:14.709
like you said. The argument that the Biden administration was making was it was in congressman's financial the financial best interest of their

01:21:14.719 --> 01:21:23.990
districts in order to vote for this bill. So at le it's it's a business. Yeah. Give them an A for honesty. Yeah,

01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:33.990
they're at least saying, "Yeah, feed the machine." Yeah, feed the machine. But doesn't that also cost human lives? Like if our military has to get involved? It does. That's the um you these now

01:21:34.000 --> 01:21:44.310
they're supposedly sanitary wars where our kids don't have to die. But I think it's disgusting uh when you know we've had members of

01:21:44.320 --> 01:21:52.950
the Senate at least say that uh this is great. We're grinding down Russia's military capability and we don't have to

01:21:52.960 --> 01:22:01.030
spill any of our blood. But I mean, how perverted is that that you're you're grinding up Ukrainians bodies in order

01:22:01.040 --> 01:22:09.990
to grind up Russian bodies and that somehow that's in the best interests of the United States. I I'll give I don't want to say his name, but I'll give that

01:22:10.000 --> 01:22:20.070
senator uh credit for being honest at least. But I think it's disgusting. Yeah. I mean I think it's we just have so much capability to manipulate so many

01:22:20.080 --> 01:22:29.189
situations you know and I don't understand like actually I it's silly to say I don't understand anymore if I believe that part of the military-industrial complex or the

01:22:29.199 --> 01:22:38.790
defense industrial base industrial base needs to keep uh keep collecting you know it makes sense it's a business everything kind of I mean that's one of

01:22:38.800 --> 01:22:46.950
the downsides of capitalism I guess you know in a weird way is that everything kind of can become a business you know even like the beauties of um trying to

01:22:46.960 --> 01:22:55.350
be uh supportive of other countries or trying to help out people, you know. Um and and that that's in addition to the trillion dollars a year we're now

01:22:55.360 --> 01:23:05.830
spending on the military in in the United States. That's about what Congress allocates. And this this is all catching up to us because now the

01:23:05.840 --> 01:23:15.990
interest that we're paying is about a trillion dollars a year. So because we've engaged for two or three decades in all of these overseas wars, we've

01:23:16.000 --> 01:23:25.189
racked up such a tab that we're paying more in interest than there you go than we are in the militaryindustrial complex.

01:23:25.199 --> 01:23:35.590
And you know on the screen there it says 849 billion. Don't forget there's another hundred billion in the big beautiful bill that they snuck in there and they sneak in another 50 billion

01:23:35.600 --> 01:23:45.270
somewhere else when um so it's about a trillion but look look up the interest on the debt now too we're oh the interest on the debt it matches our GDP

01:23:45.280 --> 01:23:55.110
right now I think it's about 35 mill 35 trillion a year is our that's the debt but the interest on the debt matches the how much we spend on all of our defense

01:23:55.120 --> 01:24:03.430
it's it's a trillion dollars if you look up interest what's the interest on the debt last year. That's insane. Um, do

01:24:03.440 --> 01:24:11.669
you think that we should have a war with Iran? I know you got you and Ro, which is so crazy that he was here the other day and then here you are because it was just like what are the odds, you know,

01:24:11.679 --> 01:24:20.950
like Right. And no, we didn't plan that because we didn't know Israel was going to bomb Iran and that Oh, no. A month ago, I knew that you were probably going to come. We've been talking about it,

01:24:20.960 --> 01:24:30.470
but then Ro, he and I just decided like 5 days ago. So, it was just crazy before I even knew that the bill that you guys had put that together. Um, he said that that made it so that that there had to

01:24:30.480 --> 01:24:41.030
be a 15-day moratorum before you went to war. Is that correct? Can you explain it to me? Um, no. That we can get a vote within 15 days of uh of this bill being

01:24:41.040 --> 01:24:51.510
introduced unless Speaker Johnson does something sneaky. So there's a law that says if Ro Kana and I um and which we

01:24:51.520 --> 01:25:01.350
did introduce this war powers resolution, the law says that Speaker Johnson needs to bring this to the floor uh for a vote if the committee doesn't

01:25:01.360 --> 01:25:11.110
act on it. The committee is not going to act on it. By the way, I introduced this on Tuesday um and it's just been a few days. We

01:25:11.120 --> 01:25:21.189
have 37 co-sponsors already now. it. Whether you think we should be engaged in a war with Iran or not, I

01:25:21.199 --> 01:25:30.629
would hope that your listeners understand that or agree that it's important that their members of Congress vote on whether that happens or not. And

01:25:30.639 --> 01:25:40.870
before, just to give you some historical perspective, uh before George Bush senior went attacked Iraq, there was a

01:25:40.880 --> 01:25:49.430
vote of Congress to do that. It wasn't a declaration of war. or it was to authorize use of military force. Before uh George Bush Jr. went into

01:25:49.440 --> 01:25:58.070
Afghanistan, there was a vote of Congress. And before we went into Iraq again, there was a vote of Congress. What's being discussed right now in the

01:25:58.080 --> 01:26:06.709
news is this notion that the president could just join in on the bombing of Iran without a vote of Congress. It's

01:26:06.719 --> 01:26:16.629
the Constitution requires Congress to vote. Like that's our authority is to declare war. So, why do you need this bill then if it's already a law? Well,

01:26:16.639 --> 01:26:24.950
this is uh this is prescribed by that law. Basically, somebody has to bring it to a vote. I see. And so, I stepped up

01:26:24.960 --> 01:26:33.110
and I asked Roana if he wanted to join me on this and he did and we've been collecting like a dozen co-sponsors a day since then. So, you guys just

01:26:33.120 --> 01:26:42.390
saying, "Hey guys, we have to vote on this. We have to vote. They can't just say it and we have to do it." Correct. Right. And what what's funny is whenever it's the other guy in the White House,

01:26:42.400 --> 01:26:51.750
if like if a Democrat's in the White House, Republicans and the Democrat wants to wage war, the Republicans agree with this principle that I'm saying. And

01:26:51.760 --> 01:27:00.229
if it's a Republican in the White House, it's the other way. It's the other way. The Democrats agree with the principle that uh Congress needs to vote on it.

01:27:00.239 --> 01:27:09.510
But we've got this interesting situation where there's a Republican in the White House and Republicans control Congress. And so it's I don't have a single

01:27:09.520 --> 01:27:18.790
Republican co-sponsor for my bill yet for for two reasons. Number one, they're afraid of Apac, the you know, American

01:27:18.800 --> 01:27:27.350
Israel. Uh uh Netanyahu has been wanting to fight over there forever. Yeah. For two decades. There's videos of him

01:27:27.360 --> 01:27:36.790
saying like how he's been Yeah. How he's been wanting to Yeah. I've seen it anyway. It could be AI. I have no idea. No, it's real. For two decades, he's been saying they're weeks away from a

01:27:36.800 --> 01:27:46.229
nuclear weapon. Um, so even by the way, even if they are, Pakistan's got a nuclear weapon. India's got a nuclear weapon. Nobody's talking about bombing

01:27:46.239 --> 01:27:54.790
them. Yeah. And the other reality is, look, South Africa, people forget this, used to have nuclear weapons. A country

01:27:54.800 --> 01:28:04.390
of 30 million people developed nuclear capability on their own in the 70s. Like, we need to be preparing to defend our own country. I agree. I don't know

01:28:04.400 --> 01:28:12.470
what the we're doing over there. I don't understand it. And we've almost dug so many holes over there and it's like it just feels so far away from

01:28:12.480 --> 01:28:21.510
people. Like why is it over there starting all this you know? And when we have problems in our own country and they're basic problems and they never get solved. It's the same thing.

01:28:21.520 --> 01:28:31.430
Instead like Hollywood creates like what about the diddy trial that'll keep you entertained for three months, you know? Or like some here's some here's a pedophile,

01:28:31.440 --> 01:28:41.270
you know? It just it's always the same thing. I call those weapons of mass distraction. Yeah, there's always a weapon of mass distraction that comes up. What do you uh do you think that

01:28:41.280 --> 01:28:50.709
Trump wants a war in Iran? No, I don't. I actually don't. And I've talked to him on the phone about this when you remember there was Iran

01:28:50.719 --> 01:29:00.790
a general from Iran called Solommani who was uh basically taken out while he was in Iraq during the first Trump presidency. Bring up Solommani. Yeah,

01:29:00.800 --> 01:29:10.709
there you go. Interesting looking guy. He almost looks like two different people put into one head. So, they took him out when Trump was president. Was he a good guy or bad guy? Bad guy. Okay.

01:29:10.719 --> 01:29:18.870
Okay. And then u and I I'm not here to litigate that, but Trump was talking about attacking Iran after that. I think

01:29:18.880 --> 01:29:27.030
they shot down one of our drones and so tensions were escalating and the Democrats put a bill on the floor to say

01:29:27.040 --> 01:29:35.590
that u you can't go basically like my bill this time says you can't go to war without a vote of Congress and I vote I

01:29:35.600 --> 01:29:44.070
was one of three Republicans who voted for that resolution but Trump found out I was going to vote for it and he called me up and tried to talk me out of voting

01:29:44.080 --> 01:29:53.350
for it and in that conversation we talked about war with Iran And he genuinely I do believe he genuinely didn't want war with Iran. His argument

01:29:53.360 --> 01:30:01.669
to me was that if we Congress gave him the authority to threaten them that he could keep us out of a war with the

01:30:01.679 --> 01:30:09.830
threat. I see. So that's a strategy. It is a strategy. The problem with the strategy I told him was okay if I vote

01:30:09.840 --> 01:30:18.390
to give you that authority to declare war or on your own you know preemptively Congress. I know it will happen. Well,

01:30:18.400 --> 01:30:29.110
what if they call your bluff and then now we're in a war and I don't get a chance to vote on it because I just said we don't need to vote on it. And and um

01:30:29.120 --> 01:30:37.669
he was not happy with that reasoning. But well, because I guess I guess his thought would be, well, if I tell you I'm not going to do it no matter what,

01:30:37.679 --> 01:30:46.149
then why wouldn't you support me? Probably. Yeah. Um but you can't know that he won't. And by the way, he told me, he said, "I'm more libertarian than

01:30:46.159 --> 01:30:54.310
you are." Really? Oh, man. He Donald Trump is an interesting guy, man. I What a you What

01:30:54.320 --> 01:31:03.350
an anomaly of a human being. I think he is. There'll never be another person like him, particularly not one that becomes president. And I've been on his

01:31:03.360 --> 01:31:11.590
good side and I've been on his bad side. And it seems like every couple years it flips. Yeah. I saw Didn't you get uninvited to the picnic or something? Was that a thing that was that a real

01:31:11.600 --> 01:31:19.910
thing that happened? a real thing that happened meme about or something that you got uninvited to the um at the last minute I got reinvited

01:31:19.920 --> 01:31:28.790
u but this goes back to 2020 during co I was the only one who said we're you know this car's act is going to bankrupt the

01:31:28.800 --> 01:31:37.510
country basically it's going to cause massive inflation and shortages so I opposed that um and the president called me he was upset with me that I would

01:31:37.520 --> 01:31:48.390
force Congress to return during COVID and vote and basically all I said was This was during co they wanted to spend $2 trillion by by unanimous consent. I

01:31:48.400 --> 01:31:57.669
said if truckers have to work and farmers have to work and nurses have to work why why doesn't Congress show up and vote on this? Yeah. So he at the time he called me a third rate

01:31:57.679 --> 01:32:06.149
grandstander and said I should be thrown out of Congress. Uh the media immediately like descended on me and said what did I have to say for myself?

01:32:06.159 --> 01:32:16.229
Cuz he was tweeting all of this and they said well I'm at least second rate. Come on. Um, yeah, help me out here. Two years later, he endorsed me for a

01:32:16.239 --> 01:32:26.390
reelection. And then, uh, most recently, Bobby Kennedy, you know, joined a coalition with the president um, for MA,

01:32:26.400 --> 01:32:36.790
Make America Healthy Again. And you, you know, you can do that through the, um, National Institute of Health and FDA and CDC and all that, but also our food

01:32:36.800 --> 01:32:44.950
supply is a big important part of that. So Bobby Kennedy was advocating for me to be the Secretary of Agriculture and

01:32:44.960 --> 01:32:53.910
he and I have been talking about it for weeks. This was before Trump won the election last fall. And there's a lot of agriculture out of Kentucky. That would have been great. It it would have been

01:32:53.920 --> 01:33:03.189
great. Would it have something you were interested in? I Yes, definitely. Because I think there are a lot of things we could do to basically reinvigorate and empower small farmers

01:33:03.199 --> 01:33:13.270
to to make healthy food and and grow local economies, things like that. And so I was all in and Bobby Kennedy's team spent a lot of time on it. And I told

01:33:13.280 --> 01:33:22.790
him, this was like in October before the election. I said, 'I think there's one problem with your plan. And he said, "What's that?" And I said, "I've not endorsed Trump." And he said, "Well, it

01:33:22.800 --> 01:33:31.110
sounds like you need to endorse Trump." Do you think that was a strategy or do you think that it was No, he was genuine and and I agreed with him. So I said,

01:33:31.120 --> 01:33:40.149
"Well, how do we announce it?" and he said, "We'll come out to Wisconsin Tuesday and Tulsi and I are doing this rally and just come up on stage and announce it there." And I'm thinking,

01:33:40.159 --> 01:33:50.550
man, I don't want to go to Wisconsin in October to to do this because I had a lot of other things on my plate at that time. And so, um, I put it off for a

01:33:50.560 --> 01:33:59.910
day. I did look at plane tickets to go to Wisconsin. I I typed out an endorsement of Trump on my iPhone, read it back to myself, and I woke up the

01:33:59.920 --> 01:34:09.669
next morning and I thought, I got this is the day I got to do this. So, uh, Trump, when my wife passed away last summer, he had left a very nice, uh,

01:34:09.679 --> 01:34:19.590
message. I would have obviously taken his call, but, you know, I was inundated with calls, but he left a really nice message of condolences. That was thoughtful of him. And so, it was, and

01:34:19.600 --> 01:34:28.870
that's a side people don't see, right? I I actually campaigned for Ronda Santis and Trump felt compelled to leave that message even though I hadn't endorsed

01:34:28.880 --> 01:34:38.709
him. It was very thoughtful message. So I sit down. I'm in a hotel in Orlando and I woke up and uh I went and I listened to that message and I thought,

01:34:38.719 --> 01:34:48.149
"All right, I'm going to talk to his staff about going to Wisconsin and doing this endorsement." So I I dialed the number and on the second ring I hear,

01:34:48.159 --> 01:34:56.390
"Hello, this is Donald." And I was like, "Oh that's his cell number." And he's like two weeks from prison or

01:34:56.400 --> 01:35:05.110
president. Nobody knows and and he's taking my call. It's America. And I was taken off guard cuz I thought it was I was like, "Now what do you do? What do

01:35:05.120 --> 01:35:13.669
you freaking do, Thomas?" Sitting here in my boxers in a marriott like, "Oh god, at least go outside and stand up." You weren't sitting down, were you? No.

01:35:13.679 --> 01:35:23.430
Cuz your audio your your volume's better if you walk around while you're talking to somebody. So, uh, the first thing I did was to thank him for leaving the message. Oh, that's good. about my wife

01:35:23.440 --> 01:35:31.910
cuz I had I hadn't done that yet. And he said, "That's a hard one. That's a very hard one." You know, uh, Arnold Palmer,

01:35:31.920 --> 01:35:41.910
he played around a lot, but he did love his wife. And when she passed away, it it almost killed Arie. I mean, it was tough on Arie. Um, but he's a tough

01:35:41.920 --> 01:35:50.229
cookie. You You're a tough cookie, too. and uh you know you're like Arie, you'll get through this. And he goes, "I take

01:35:50.239 --> 01:36:00.709
it back. You're much tougher than Arie ever was." So then he goes, "You sharp cookie, too. You know, you went to MIT. My uncle,

01:36:00.719 --> 01:36:09.830
Professor John G. Trump, taught at MIT for 41 years. It's a record." Then he said, "Oh, what a what a god.

01:36:09.840 --> 01:36:19.270
What a what a I've got the best genetics." Yeah. I'm like I'm thinking, wait, this guy is two weeks away and

01:36:19.280 --> 01:36:27.750
he's got to be busy, right? This is the election of his life. And so I thought, you know, at some point they're going to grab him and say, "Look, who are you

01:36:27.760 --> 01:36:36.229
talking to? You got to get back to work." Yeah. So I said, "Well, the reason I'm calling you is I I want to I've seen it's close in these purple states and there a lot of independents

01:36:36.239 --> 01:36:45.270
and libertarians who could be influenced perhaps, and I'd like to endorse you." Oh, this is wonderful. This is great. This is tremendous. And and I said,

01:36:45.280 --> 01:36:54.390
'Well, how do I how do we get it out there? And he goes, "Oh, just tweet it. I'll retweet you." So, I saved myself a trip to Wisconsin. Oh, that's nice,

01:36:54.400 --> 01:37:03.830
dude. I love going to Wisconsin. Was it in Lacrosse? I don't know where it was. You missed out, I think. So, he goes, "Uh, you know, I spoke at the

01:37:03.840 --> 01:37:14.149
Libertarian National Convention." Yeah, there it is. There's Oh, yeah. Um, there's a sentence in here I got to explain. Okay. Uh, so he goes, "I spoke

01:37:14.159 --> 01:37:24.390
at the the Libertarian Convention and they loved me." He said, "When I mentioned I was going to free that kid that's been locked up a hundred years, they all applauded." And who's that? Not

01:37:24.400 --> 01:37:32.629
Travis Scott or something. Ross Albrech. So I said, "Oh yeah, he's in for two life sentences plus 40 years for running a website."

01:37:32.639 --> 01:37:40.950
And um, he said, "Yeah, put that in your endorsement. the libertarians will love it. Really? So if you look like I'm like

01:37:40.960 --> 01:37:49.830
he will make America healthy. He'll save America. Secure our liberties. I said and he'll free Ross Albert. Wow. Wow. So a lot of people are like we'll take it.

01:37:49.840 --> 01:37:58.149
Yeah. Ross's mom called me. Wow. And and me for that. And then is he out? Yeah. Wow. I took him to the state of the

01:37:58.159 --> 01:38:07.270
union. I said cool guy. He's super cool guy. And he never should have been in prison uh for as long as he was. Yeah. Yeah. What do you get locked up for? Uh

01:38:07.280 --> 01:38:17.590
running a dark web website called Silk Road that allowed people to buy and sell things on the internet. Oh yeah. And they started selling dope and on there. People are dying. Yeah. So uh I

01:38:17.600 --> 01:38:25.750
say so that's what he's holding for a year. But I mean that's the thing. It's like you can't lock him up if you can't lock him up and not lock up uh all the

01:38:25.760 --> 01:38:35.750
perpetrators on the website are free, right? Talking about you can't lock him up and not lock up the um Sackler family, though. You keep going back to

01:38:35.760 --> 01:38:44.229
that. I don't know what you're talking about. Oh, they're the uh family that did the opioid epidemic or whatever. Oh, okay. They're the uh Purdue Pharma family. Oh, okay. Okay. Sorry. So,

01:38:44.239 --> 01:38:55.669
anyway, yeah, I'm sorry. They just they're just like uh mass murders or whatever. Oh, I mean they're allegedly mass murderers that are still wandering around. So, anyways, um the thing is, so

01:38:55.679 --> 01:39:05.430
I said, "All right, I'll put that sentence in. Let me I want to run this by you." And he said, "Here, I give it to Dan Scavenino. He's on the plane with me and

01:39:05.440 --> 01:39:13.990
I'm like, "Oh my gosh." He's on a plane and he's talking to me. He's We're going to go tape the Joe Rogan show. Really? Then then he like I can hear him hand the phone to Oh, that was right before

01:39:14.000 --> 01:39:24.070
the election, dude. Yeah. He hands the phone to Scavenino and he's like it I don't think he knew I could hear him, but he goes, "Dan, this is a tough cookie. It's Thomas Messi. Uh, don't

01:39:24.080 --> 01:39:32.390
screw this up." Oh. Then we worked out the endorsement. And that's pretty cool, huh? It was cool because then instead of like a bunch of staff trying to figure

01:39:32.400 --> 01:39:41.590
out what to do, I just called him. Yeah. And we got it done in like five minutes, right? But and I did endorse him and then I'm obviously I'm not the a

01:39:41.600 --> 01:39:49.669
secretary, but I'm that's okay. I'm happy where I'm at. I would have done it if he needed somebody to do it. But are you guys at odds? Do you feel like or do

01:39:49.679 --> 01:39:58.870
you feel like there's so much going on in his world? Uh well, he came over to Congress a few weeks ago. Okay. to whip

01:39:58.880 --> 01:40:07.430
us on the big beautiful bill. And so when that happens, you guys all get together in a room and he gets to speak. Yeah. 200 people in the room. Okay. And so he's petitioning for the big

01:40:07.440 --> 01:40:17.270
beautiful bill. He's telling us how great it is and then he's says something about me and then he realizes I might be in the room. He said, "Is Tom Massie in

01:40:17.280 --> 01:40:25.430
the room?" And I raised my hand and he looked at me. He said, "You know, the thing about Tom Massie is um he's very

01:40:25.440 --> 01:40:35.270
much like Ran Paul. They're both from Kentucky. You can never get them to vote for anything. And they got the same hair. That's pretty true, huh? Then he goes,

01:40:35.280 --> 01:40:43.510
"Actually, I like Massiey's hair better." So all my colleagues, they they were uh approving of me that day. That's

01:40:43.520 --> 01:40:53.510
hilarious. So yeah, there's I mean people people some people hate Donald Trump, some people love Donald Trump. I just think you cannot deny that he is a

01:40:53.520 --> 01:41:03.830
there is there is nobody like him. There's two there's two forms of Trump derangement syndrome though. There's uh there's the kind where you hate him so

01:41:03.840 --> 01:41:12.790
much it's irrational and even if he's for something you support you still be against him and and a lot of liberals have Trump derangement syndrome and some

01:41:12.800 --> 01:41:20.870
Republicans. Well, that's a general thing. I think that's just a political derangement syndrome, too. I mean, I have friends it's like you could show them the same exact thing, but if it's a

01:41:20.880 --> 01:41:30.870
Republican saying it or a Democrat and they'll choose the other side, you know? Well, that's why there's the other version of Trump derangement syndrome, which is you love him so much that when

01:41:30.880 --> 01:41:39.830
he goes against something he said he would do or he does something that's against your principles, you change your own principles to support him. And I

01:41:39.840 --> 01:41:48.470
think that's just as dangerous. And I try not to have either of the Trump derangement syndrome, you know, just be

01:41:48.480 --> 01:41:57.189
for the people of Kentucky. Yeah, it is. And look, Kentucky derangement alone is that's a pretty good, you know what I'm saying? That's not a bad, you know,

01:41:57.199 --> 01:42:07.270
that's that's a I mean, that's its own special 150 proof derangement right there. You know, it's one of a kind. I'm a man of my people.

01:42:07.280 --> 01:42:16.229
It's one of a kind. You know what's one of the most beautiful place I've ever done a show? Was Pike Pikeville Pikeville, Kentucky. Yeah. Eastern Kentucky. It was a tough show. It was

01:42:16.239 --> 01:42:25.590
just I don't know if it was the acoustics place we played, but it was a beautiful little city. Great crowd. I mean, beautiful big town. I mean, one of the most beautiful place I think I've ever been. It just blew my mind of what

01:42:25.600 --> 01:42:34.149
it even was. See See if you can find a picture of Lewis County, Kentucky. That's where I'm from. It's uh that's the town I grew up in right there. What

01:42:34.159 --> 01:42:43.510
is that? I believe that's Vanceburg. That's Vanceburg. Yep. And the courthouse with the red roof on the left uh with the columns. Oh, yeah. The

01:42:43.520 --> 01:42:54.310
there's two courouses, but one on the left. My grandfather hauled the stones for that courthouse that were quarried locally. Dude, that is cool. How big is that place? It's about uh 2,000 people.

01:42:54.320 --> 01:43:04.709
Hell yeah. Perfect size. It's the county seat. It's the biggest town in the county. So, you go there to buy beer and to go to church and put your money in

01:43:04.719 --> 01:43:14.070
the bank or get a loan. Amen. Lewis County. Yeah. So, that's the town is called Lewis County or the whole county is 12,000. uh the the whole county is uh

01:43:14.080 --> 01:43:23.350
about 13 or 14,000 people and Vanceburg used to be 2,000 it's probably 1500 people now but that's where I grew up

01:43:23.360 --> 01:43:33.510
and I this is a true story when I went to MIT which is in Cambridge Massachusetts across the river from Boston you you can see in Vanceburg there's no crosswalks we had one

01:43:33.520 --> 01:43:42.870
stoplight and I lived there until I was 18 then I would go to Massachusetts never visited in my life and I'm I

01:43:42.880 --> 01:43:51.430
landed on a plane. I'm going through a crosswalk, you know, with the signs that say walk and don't walk. And a car honked at me and I thought, "Oh my gosh,

01:43:51.440 --> 01:44:00.310
I'd been here six hours and already run into somebody from Kentucky." And I waved at them cuz I thought the car honking knew me. No, they were they were

01:44:00.320 --> 01:44:09.510
waving back with one finger cuz I was walking against a don't walk or something. Get out the street honking. That's hilarious, dude. Yeah, man. Going

01:44:09.520 --> 01:44:18.149
from a small town to a big place is definitely fascinating, man. It's definitely that was and it was intimidating like to go from that little

01:44:18.159 --> 01:44:27.109
town where everybody says, "Oh, you're uneducated. You're backwards. You don't know anything." I went to public school

01:44:27.119 --> 01:44:35.990
K through 12 there. And then and then to go to MIT with all these kids from private school and Bronx science. Were you just like a Were you just I mean, people must have think you was a real

01:44:36.000 --> 01:44:46.070
nerd or whatever. I was a nerd. Oh, yeah. I built little science projects in my room and you know that was that was basically my ticket out of Appalachia.

01:44:46.080 --> 01:44:54.790
Yeah. And went to MIT and and uh started a company there. It it was actually a virtual reality interface that I invented that let you touch

01:44:54.800 --> 01:45:04.629
threedimensional objects and raised $32 million of venture capital. Oh my god. From people like JD Vance. Yeah. Well,

01:45:04.639 --> 01:45:13.669
dude, have you seen Well, and some of your story remind or is similar to Mr. Vances, I think, in some ways, you know, it's like and you don't hear a lot of stories about like I mean, I think that

01:45:13.679 --> 01:45:22.310
they happen, but you don't hear that many of them, you know, and maybe it's just cuz we don't talk to as many politicians or like usually politicians were always like on C-SPAN or somewhere

01:45:22.320 --> 01:45:30.870
where you didn't really get to envelop much of their story. I think by JD having that movie that came out about him probably helped. Um, well the book I

01:45:30.880 --> 01:45:40.070
mean he wrote the book and it rings true for me like he he went to New England to school. I went to New England from school. I didn't know where the place

01:45:40.080 --> 01:45:50.790
what to do with the place setitting of of of silverware. I was waving at cars that honked. But I tell JD when he was a senator we we met a few times to talk

01:45:50.800 --> 01:46:00.950
about the Ukraine issue and things like that. Uh but I told him I said JD you've appropriated my culture. Like I'm from Vanceburg, Kentucky. Literally Vanceburg

01:46:00.960 --> 01:46:11.590
and you're from Ohio and you're saying you're a hillbilly. Like he's part of the the hillbilly people that like my people that left and went to Ohio. So I

01:46:11.600 --> 01:46:20.550
I have a brother and a sister. They both went to Ohio. We And it was a big migration. Why was it? Was it to work in the mills? It was uh there were shoe

01:46:20.560 --> 01:46:29.669
factories. Some of them went to Detroit to work at car factories, but it was for employment. Employment. We uh and and this continued for generations as coal

01:46:29.679 --> 01:46:40.550
went down. But that we said they teach you three Rs in Eastern Kentucky, reading, writing, and Route 23. Oh, yeah. Route 23 runs north, crosses the

01:46:40.560 --> 01:46:49.750
river, and goes up from Portsouth to Columbus and on up that way. So, um the difference between JD and I is my mamal

01:46:49.760 --> 01:46:59.030
didn't drop fbombs. like he had I will say he probably had a rougher upbringing with you know his single mom and whatnot. So he had overcome a lot. Yeah.

01:46:59.040 --> 01:47:07.590
I mean he's I mean I think JD's a great speaker. He's an interesting guy. You know I've enjoyed the opportunity even get to talk to him. The simple fact that even somebody like me is even getting to

01:47:07.600 --> 01:47:16.149
talk to him. I think it's all kind of fascinating. I think it's great. I think he's over there biting his tongue so much though. Like cuz when you're the vice president Oh, it did feel different

01:47:16.159 --> 01:47:24.870
when I spoke with him the first time the second time. You you and he's a good guy. like he's texted me since Oh, I agree. Since he's been vice president

01:47:24.880 --> 01:47:33.189
and um he's a good guy, but I'm sure he's biting his tongue on some of this stuff. Yeah, I bet it's interesting. You know, I bet the plot thickens, you know.

01:47:33.199 --> 01:47:41.830
I bet the plot really, really thickens. Um you talked about working in virtual reality. How cra I feel like now, did you see Iran did that? Uh there was a

01:47:41.840 --> 01:47:50.790
military video that they had pushing their military. It was like a um and we'll be done in a few minutes. Um see if you can bring that up. It was uh Yeah. Did you see? Now it's like there's

01:47:50.800 --> 01:48:03.109
like PR videos for war and now. Like what is even look at this

01:48:03.119 --> 01:48:11.910
Zoom in. I mean this is

01:48:11.920 --> 01:48:23.270
this look like a video game. I mean look at this.

01:48:23.280 --> 01:48:33.109
I feel like it's just getting really bizarre. Look at that. I mean, that's good. But I

01:48:33.119 --> 01:48:41.750
think it's like it's like we're it's like now I feel like we we're getting so close to you're going to be able to subscribe online and stream watch a

01:48:41.760 --> 01:48:51.109
stream of a war. Like you're going to be able to have drones that are in the air watching war, right? Like probably Palunteer drones or some company are in

01:48:51.119 --> 01:48:59.189
the air and you can stream it from home, you know? But wouldn't it be better if just like the drones killed the other drones and people didn't get killed and

01:48:59.199 --> 01:49:08.470
maybe that's it's virtual reality and who can ever who can build the best army in from VR? That would be a lot better way than killing people. I agree. I

01:49:08.480 --> 01:49:17.590
think it's gotten I mean it's like you're going to be able to you know it's going to be like yeah is just like you said earlier everything is feels merging. It doesn't even feel real

01:49:17.600 --> 01:49:26.310
anymore. That's how unreal is. It doesn't even you can barely tell as a regular semi- ignorant person the

01:49:26.320 --> 01:49:35.109
difference between what's real and what's not anymore. And that's when things get bizarre. It's like I feel like next week like I show speed is going to like compete against

01:49:35.119 --> 01:49:43.350
Netanyahu's son or whatever that lives I think in LA or somewhere like but and they're going to compete and like the winner gets to um live in like a one of

01:49:43.360 --> 01:49:53.109
those like Congo cobalt mines where they're making iPhone like parts. It just you're just like what the is happening anymore? It happens on both sides though and truth is the first

01:49:53.119 --> 01:50:02.950
casualty of war. And you saw like there was the Ghost of Kiev. remember when that came out and and there was supposedly this aviator in Ukraine that

01:50:02.960 --> 01:50:12.709
was shooting down all these Russian jets. Yeah. Oh, it was a it was lore. Yeah, it was it was Yeah, it was all made up. A popular but ultimately mythical

01:50:12.719 --> 01:50:21.669
Ukrainian fighter pilot, an urban legend that emerged during the early days of the Russian invasion Ukraine in 2022 said that a single MiG 29 pilot was shooting down multiple Russian aircraft

01:50:21.679 --> 01:50:31.189
becoming a similar resistance. Yes. So, and and that was being reported as a real thing and congressmen were falling for that. And so, I have tried to be

01:50:31.199 --> 01:50:41.109
very judicious in all the videos I watch of everything that's that's coming from all the countries, whether it's Iran or Israel or our own. And I actually caught

01:50:41.119 --> 01:50:50.709
the IDF, this is Israeli Defense Forces, putting using a a a clip that was from last year trying to make it look like

01:50:50.719 --> 01:51:01.750
that was uh Israel being bombed this, you know, this week. And I, this is one of the fun things about being a congressman with 1.3 million followers.

01:51:01.760 --> 01:51:12.229
Like I pointed it out and people started looking at it and comparing it to the video from nine months ago. And if they got community noted, the IDF for putting

01:51:12.239 --> 01:51:21.750
out a fake video. They didn't have to. I mean, there's plenty of live footage, but they fell for it. Like, we're just we're in a loop. We're we're consuming

01:51:21.760 --> 01:51:30.310
stuff on the internet. And you know, the loop has been completed when the Israeli government consumes YouTubetubes that

01:51:30.320 --> 01:51:38.550
aren't real and then puts them in their videos. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I could see them doing it just because, but yeah, I

01:51:38.560 --> 01:51:47.030
think it's definitely the loop is like we're been in the loop so long we're dizzy. That's where that's where it feels like we are. If you can step out of it, like I haven't had a TV in 20

01:51:47.040 --> 01:51:55.189
years because um you're not missing anything. It just reinforces the the false There we go. Breaking Bad was

01:51:55.199 --> 01:52:04.790
good. Did they? And Oh, yeah. Who knows? See? Yeah. You can't tell what's really more raw footage. Iran there. Yeah. There's the two videos. Look, that's

01:52:04.800 --> 01:52:13.270
that's the one they put out that said was happening in the past hours right now. Look at the other one. The clouds are the same shape. The missiles are in

01:52:13.280 --> 01:52:22.709
the same formation. And that was a YouTube from eight months ago. Wow. But the the reason I caught it and nobody else did was I was trying to verify

01:52:22.719 --> 01:52:32.709
everything before I took it as real. Yeah. And I saw that video from eight months ago and figured out it was fake, but the IDF didn't. Or maybe they did

01:52:32.719 --> 01:52:40.790
and it just was more dramatic than the footage they had. That could be more That sounds slightly more possible. But what do I know? I don't know anything. I

01:52:40.800 --> 01:52:51.510
know this dude. Um what can we do? Like what can voters do anymore? Do we Does it matter anymore what we do or are we done? It does matter. Um

01:52:51.520 --> 01:52:59.910
you're going to Does local level matter more than ever? Local level voting or what matters? Like what do we what do we what can we do? So, the congressman

01:52:59.920 --> 01:53:10.229
before me in my district got a call at home one night and this older lady was upset that her trash hadn't been picked up and he's a US congressman. He said,

01:53:10.239 --> 01:53:19.669
"Ma'am picked it up." He said, "No." He said, "I'm your US congressman. I don't I'm not involved with the trash pickup. Did you think about calling your county commissioner?" And she said, "I was

01:53:19.679 --> 01:53:28.629
going to do that, but I didn't want to start that high up." Yeah. So, um, it I think local is I started

01:53:28.639 --> 01:53:39.830
out in local politics and and the local officials have way more impact on your life than the than the federal government does. And so I would take

01:53:39.840 --> 01:53:48.070
time and pay attention and vote locally. And those are also people you can go find. When I was a local government official and we would stop at the

01:53:48.080 --> 01:53:56.550
grocery store to buy milk, my kids would beg my wife to go in to pick up the milk because I'd be in there two hours and somebody talk to me about a pothole and

01:53:56.560 --> 01:54:05.830
somebody talk to me about some weeds that need mowed at the intersection and I wouldn't get out of there. Now that I'm a congressman, I can buy milk anywhere. Nobody cares. They know

01:54:05.840 --> 01:54:16.310
Congress can't get anything done, right? And so I think the people have figured it out. Definitely pay attention local. When you do pay attention federal, don't

01:54:16.320 --> 01:54:26.149
get distracted by the weapons of mass distraction. Um, don't call Nancy Pelosi. She's not, you're not going to change her mind.

01:54:26.159 --> 01:54:35.430
Only call people you can vote for because the the people taking those calls know that and they'll discount everything you say unless you're a constituent. So, everybody has two state

01:54:35.440 --> 01:54:45.430
senators and one US representative. So, you only need to make three phone calls. I wouldn't write them a letter. I wouldn't waste time on email. I would make a phone call. And a real, more

01:54:45.440 --> 01:54:57.109
likely than not, a real person in that office will pick up the phone and talk to you. And it'll be somebody who does talk to the congressman. Like we we have a staff of about 12 to 24 people. And I

01:54:57.119 --> 01:55:06.149
say hi to those people that you are talking to every day. Now, I don't know that all congressmen are this diligent, but I have them write down who called

01:55:06.159 --> 01:55:14.790
about what and how many calls we got. Some days I get one phone call and it's from the same guy that calls every day, right? Michael, if Michael doesn't call,

01:55:14.800 --> 01:55:24.629
we ask the local sheriff to go do, you know, wellness check. Oh yeah. Don't don't be a frequent flyer. Don't call up your congressman and say, "I'll never vote for him again if he votes this

01:55:24.639 --> 01:55:33.350
way." Because then they never have to take you seriously. But I would call up I would only call people you can vote for and be polite, be quick, get off the

01:55:33.360 --> 01:55:42.870
phone. the the next one you're uh people I see people come up to lobby let's say for their for their grandma who has

01:55:42.880 --> 01:55:53.750
Alzheimer's and they spend uh $300 on a plane ticket couple hundred on a hotel room u they you know the food is

01:55:53.760 --> 01:56:04.390
expensive in DC and they finally get to their congressman's office and they talk to a staffer that to me is a waste of money I could

01:56:04.400 --> 01:56:14.310
uh find that congressman locally and take half of what you would have spent on the trip to DC and if you could stomach that person's politics, make a

01:56:14.320 --> 01:56:22.870
donation. That's why the lobbyist has the ear. I'm not saying America has to compete with lobbyists for giving money. But I will tell you this, if you give a

01:56:22.880 --> 01:56:31.589
politician $500, you won't have to ask for his phone number. He'll be calling you uh every week, what do I need next? Asking for

01:56:31.599 --> 01:56:39.910
more of it. Damn. And so so but that's where we're at kind of feels like cuz we just have to compete. Money has to compete with money. You think dark

01:56:39.920 --> 01:56:48.310
money? It doesn't have to compete but you got to figure out a way to get their attention. You know if it's whatever the minimum is to get in the door of that Oh

01:56:48.320 --> 01:56:57.830
yeah fun. If it's $50 don't give them 500. Give them 50 and go in and um just talk to them like a human being if you

01:56:57.840 --> 01:57:06.790
can. But at a bigger level, like will we ever get will the people, you know, will we ever get these lobbyists out? Is it just a rap? What do we just tell us if

01:57:06.800 --> 01:57:16.229
we all just here's the way here's the way you break free? No. Well, you should definitely go to the beach and only spend about no more than 10% of your life thinking about politics because it

01:57:16.239 --> 01:57:26.310
ain't healthy. Amen. and and um but the 10% that you do, you should you should ask your congressman to to advocate for

01:57:26.320 --> 01:57:34.550
separate bills on separate topics. Yeah, I agree. That seems way more pertinent because then you could there's some a level of accountability. Yeah. And they can't hide behind, well, it had a pay

01:57:34.560 --> 01:57:43.589
raise for soldiers, right? Um um so advocate for that. Uh make phone calls if you can be friendly and connect with

01:57:43.599 --> 01:57:52.470
them. Maybe you don't agree with them on everything, but a broken clock is right twice a day. Yeah. Some diplomacy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a big thing

01:57:52.480 --> 01:58:01.270
I've been learning recently is that there's a give and take to everything. Every single everything, you know, and that's the way that the world's built. There's like, you know, there's forces. There's a give and take. There's a yin

01:58:01.280 --> 01:58:10.709
and yang. And even when you have you want this party or this thing, it's like there has to be like uh um you you really need both forces a lot of times

01:58:10.719 --> 01:58:19.350
to get things done. Um, I think that's about it, man. I'm trying to think of anything else. Oh, I did want to We were going to supposed to talk to Mr. Walls

01:58:19.360 --> 01:58:27.750
this week, Tim Walls, uh, on Thursday because I have a show up there, but he can't. He is unable to go because of

01:58:27.760 --> 01:58:37.430
they're doing services and stuff for that his constituents or his colleagues maybe that were Yeah. murdered up there. I, you know, it's pretty heartbreaking.

01:58:37.440 --> 01:58:46.390
It is heartbreaking. And he seems like a guy with a big heart, too. I get death threats. I mean, I And the hard part is knowing which ones to take seriously and

01:58:46.400 --> 01:58:55.750
which ones not. I mean, it's definitely not the right way to do politics. Um, it just there's no there's no level of

01:58:55.760 --> 01:59:04.229
frustration that justifies violence. Yeah. I mean, that just seems really bizarre. Um there was I remember there was rumors that whenever your wife

01:59:04.239 --> 01:59:14.790
passed away that there was like something bad had happened like from a like a like a not a deranged person or something like that. Was that real? She she died unexpectedly but of natural

01:59:14.800 --> 01:59:25.430
causes and um I wasn't home. I was in DC which kills me to this day. Um but my son was home visiting so we know exactly

01:59:25.440 --> 01:59:33.669
what happened. There's no conspiracy there. Although um sorry to even ask you about it. Well, no. I think it's good cuz people ask that. People want to know

01:59:33.679 --> 01:59:41.830
that. I tell people she would uh get a kick out of it. She would Everybody wants to be a part of Yeah. Like anyway,

01:59:41.840 --> 01:59:51.510
that's if there was a conspiracy, but um I'm sure she's she's up there laughing at that one. Well, I know it's coming up on a year since she's been gone and uh

01:59:51.520 --> 02:00:00.550
yeah, just sorry to kind of maybe that was a little out of the box to say that, but um yeah, I'm sorry you and your family had to go through that. So, I

02:00:00.560 --> 02:00:09.109
appreciate you being brave and still being able to um honor your constituents and your uh group even in in the face of those types of things and and still uh

02:00:09.119 --> 02:00:18.149
be able to show up and and uh do your best and and be a maverick, I think, for probably for her spirit and for the people of um of our country. You know, I think that's one thing that's inspiring.

02:00:18.159 --> 02:00:26.390
Some people were like, "Well, this guy's nuts or this guy's great." But I'm like, "At least this guy's his own guy." You know what I'm saying? Like, I'd rather talk to that guy any day of

02:00:26.400 --> 02:00:36.629
the week. So, well, the other conspiracy that's interesting to me is uh people say, "Oh, he snapped." Like, he's lost his marbles since he lost his wife and

02:00:36.639 --> 02:00:44.709
um he's off the chain, etc., etc. No, I'm actually honoring what she wanted. Like, she worked at home on our farm and

02:00:44.719 --> 02:00:53.589
raised four kids. She also had an MIT degree. Oh, wow. And she was watching me from afar every day. She would watch hearings and give me advice for

02:00:53.599 --> 02:01:03.910
questions to ask. Ahu. She wanted me to go up there and kick ass every week. And And that's what I do. And And I'm still going to do it. I

02:01:03.920 --> 02:01:12.550
remember one time uh I introduced a bill to legalize raw milk like the kind I got out there in my camper truck. Took another swig off that thing. As long as

02:01:12.560 --> 02:01:21.030
you leave the door open while we do it, you know? Right. We had alarms going off in there. The gayar in my camper was going off when you went in there. Two men got in that thing and suddenly an

02:01:21.040 --> 02:01:29.510
alarm went off. I was like, "This is a little too Republican for me. This a little too old school Republican for me." If two men can't even casually

02:01:29.520 --> 02:01:39.430
drink raw milk together in the back of a truck camper. I know. I So I introduced a raw milk bill to legalize raw milk and Oh yeah, there we go. Oh, this is in

02:01:39.440 --> 02:01:50.070
honor of her kind of Well, this was she was still alive and I introduced this bill and the guess who came after me? The uh the milk lobbyists came after me.

02:01:50.080 --> 02:01:59.510
They said there wouldn't be enough hospitals to take care of all the people who got sick from raw milk who were going to get sick from raw milk. Is that true, do you think? Oh, hell no. I I

02:01:59.520 --> 02:02:08.149
drink it every day. I I know thousands of people that drink it every day. I'm going to catch a batch of it. It always looks like it's a little warm.

02:02:08.159 --> 02:02:17.750
No. And I pour mine in a ice cold glass. But anyways, uh and it tastes like just liquid ice cream. Oh, God. So good. I'll

02:02:17.760 --> 02:02:27.350
come have a little bit more. All right. Well, so I I I did this bill and the milk lobby comes after me and my wife had Google alerts on or whatever alerts

02:02:27.360 --> 02:02:37.990
there were and it it's like all this negative press over milk and she texted me, "OMG, I didn't realize the lactose lobby was this intolerant.

02:02:38.000 --> 02:02:47.350
Well, I think even just the name of um the lacto love is just intolerant. That's cute. What was her name your

02:02:47.360 --> 02:02:58.550
life? Rhonda. Rhonda. Yeah. Um well, we miss you Rhonda. Just a nice thought of you there and a nice story. I love the fact that that's called the Interstate Milk Freedom Act, which sounds insane,

02:02:58.560 --> 02:03:07.109
dude. Right. It sounds like something that happens at a rest area. You know, that's the problem with it. I think it's it's easier to get meth than it is to

02:03:07.119 --> 02:03:15.189
get raw milk. I'm not lying. And at least put birth control in the meth. When do we make that law?

02:03:15.199 --> 02:03:24.070
Like is that too much to ask? Like give us something. That's my motto these days. Uh Thomas Massie, I I I just admire I I appreciate your time. That's

02:03:24.080 --> 02:03:33.750
what I really appreciate. And um get out there and give them hell, man. Keep serving to the best of your ability. And just thank you for your service. And uh I really I just appreciate it. Thanks,

02:03:33.760 --> 02:03:42.550
Theo. Yep. You bet, man. Best of luck, dude. God. Yeah. Keep an eye on the debt. Yeah, I will. My mom, she will be She'll call me every hour and she'll be

02:03:42.560 --> 02:03:51.830
like, "Oh my god, it's about to go up." It is. Yeah. I'm looking for the jump. I'll be there. Now I'm just floating on the breeze and

02:03:51.840 --> 02:03:59.990
I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be corner stone.

02:04:00.000 --> 02:04:09.770
Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind I found. I can feel it in my

02:04:09.780 --> 02:04:12.890
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