WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.670 Plus a bipartisan conversation [music] with the two members of Congress who pushed to pass the law calling for the Epstein files to be made public. 00:00:08.680 --> 00:00:18.310 Has the Trump administration obeyed that law? We'll talk with Kentucky Republican Thomas [music] Massie and California Democrat Ro Khanna. Good morning and welcome to Face the 00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:27.510 Nation. So far there have been few surprises in the tens of thousands of documents related to the case against convicted sex offender and accused sex 00:00:27.520 --> 00:00:35.590 trafficker Jeffrey Epstein and his partner convicted child sex offender Ghislaine Maxwell. The Justice Department says that 1,200 names 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:44.790 identified as victims or their relatives were redacted along with materials that could result in their identification. Will the release of the documents 00:00:44.800 --> 00:00:54.430 satisfy Congress and the political forces who lobbied for their disclosure? And much more importantly, will it satisfy the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein 00:00:54.440 --> 00:01:03.470 and their families? The two House members who pushed their colleagues into passing the bill to release these documents, Republican 00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:12.310 Thomas Massie who's in Garrison, Kentucky and Democrat Ro Khanna who joins us this morning from Palo Alto, California. It's good to have both of 00:01:12.320 --> 00:01:22.590 you here. I want to start with you, Congressman Massie because in these past 48 hours we have seen the Justice Department acknowledge it's an incomplete release, but they have put 00:01:22.600 --> 00:01:30.870 out more than 13,000 files. They say more will come. This isn't everything you asked for just yet, but would you acknowledge that they 00:01:30.880 --> 00:01:39.310 are complying with the spirit if not the intent of your law? No, they're flouting the spirit and the 00:01:39.320 --> 00:01:48.110 letter of the law. It's very troubling the posture that they've taken and I won't be satisfied until the survivors are satisfied. You know, I said in the 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:57.870 hours leading up to this release that we will know if they are complying if they implicate any of the other criminals that are involved and the suspects that 00:01:57.880 --> 00:02:06.390 are involved that the witnesses that the victims themselves have given to the FBI and they've never been mentioned. 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:16.270 Well, there are some disclosures in here that seem new, Congressman Khanna. The documents confirm that the FBI received a complaint about Jeffrey Epstein back 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:25.350 in 1996, but the woman whose name is Maria Farmer who made that complaint said federal officials failed to follow up. She said the disclosure 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:34.870 makes her feel redeemed and that this was one of the best days of her life to see these documents made public. What action do you want taken around a 00:02:34.880 --> 00:02:45.390 case like this? That was the single most important disclosure of what we got. I know Maria's sister, she sounded the alarm in 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:54.070 1996. She complained to the FBI. The problem is that Epstein was so connected with law enforcement and powerful politicians, the FBI did nothing for a 00:02:54.080 --> 00:03:03.310 decade. Frankly, she deserves compensation. She deserves an explanation, but the broader point is Blanche was on this morning saying that Massie and I have a problem that it's 00:03:03.320 --> 00:03:13.830 taking too long. That's not the problem. The problem is this was a slap in the face of survivors. What do they want? They want to know who are the rich and powerful men who visited Epstein's rape 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:23.910 island and covered up the abuse. And the key documents that our law basically said needed to be released, the 60-count indictment that actually implicates a 00:03:23.920 --> 00:03:33.470 lot of these people and the prosecution memo were not released. It's not about the timeline, it's about the selective concealment. Well, yet, right? The 00:03:33.480 --> 00:03:41.670 Deputy Attorney General said there are more disclosures that will be made. You believe that they will not release that particular part? I mean, you did 00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:50.470 give them some leeway for redactions. Well, first of all, the redactions were excessive and even Harvard law 00:03:50.480 --> 00:04:00.270 professors who have looked at that have said you can't redact internal communications, you can't redact workforce product and the courts are going to find that these were excessive. 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:08.670 But my point and I'm sure Congressman Massie can elaborate is that we want the files out. So, if if our sounding the 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:17.789 alarm on what is missing is going to help them get those files out, fine. But this shouldn't be a big document dump. There's a pretty simple point. Who raped 00:04:17.799 --> 00:04:26.750 these young girls? Who covered it up? And why are they getting away with it? So, you are saying specific things regarding the indictment, Congressman Massie. I saw in a video that you 00:04:26.760 --> 00:04:36.590 posted, you had a very specific benchmark of success here. You said you know there are at least 20 men accused of sex crimes known to the FBI. How do 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:44.750 you know that number? And and do you know those names? Yeah, the survivors' lawyers have told me those numbers and they've described 00:04:44.760 --> 00:04:53.630 their professions in in general, but they've only given me one of those names and I mentioned that in a congressional hearing, Jess Staley. So, I searched 00:04:53.640 --> 00:05:02.910 these documents. I didn't see Jess Staley's name, nor did I see 19 other names. And here's why we shouldn't be optimistic that Blanche or Bondi are 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:11.270 going to release these things. They sent a six-page memo to Congress and said they cited pre-existing laws as reasons 00:05:11.280 --> 00:05:21.070 that they weren't going to follow our law. For instance, our law requires them to release information regardless of embarrassment, but they are trying to say that a previous law prevails when it 00:05:21.080 --> 00:05:29.630 doesn't. Common sense says it doesn't. The Privacy Act doesn't protect them from that. And then also as Ro said, internal communications, those they're 00:05:29.640 --> 00:05:38.670 using the FOIA standard that doesn't apply because our law already says they have to give us internal communications. In terms of the the gentleman there you 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:48.030 referenced as accused, I mean, being in the document doesn't necessarily prove criminal behavior, right? And and in terms of 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:56.150 the redactions, what the Deputy Attorney General said is that they were abiding by your law and also a judge in New York 00:05:56.160 --> 00:06:04.710 had ordered them to listen to victims. So, they're claiming that information that they had initially even published Friday they had to pull down because 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:15.630 they were trying to protect victims. You you don't sound convinced that they are abiding by you know, this intent. 00:06:15.640 --> 00:06:25.750 No, they are not abiding and all three judges who released the grand jury material said that our law trumps the prior law. That's just common sense, law 00:06:25.760 --> 00:06:34.670 school 101. Yet, Todd Blanche is using a different theory that wouldn't survive first contact with any court, which is he's trying to say that prior laws 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:42.990 override our law. That's not the way this works. Okay, what are you going to do about it to to force them to comply? I mean, can 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:52.950 you do anything? Oh, absolutely. Look, people have talked about and by the way, Todd Blanche is the face of this, but it's really the 00:06:52.960 --> 00:07:02.390 Attorney General's office, Pam Bondi who is responsible and there are several ways to get at this. Some take longer, some are shorter. The quickest way and I 00:07:02.400 --> 00:07:11.270 think most expeditious way to get justice for these victims is to bring inherent contempt against Pam Bondi and that 00:07:11.280 --> 00:07:20.070 doesn't require going through the courts and give her and and basically Ro Khanna and I are talking about and drafting that right now. 00:07:20.080 --> 00:07:28.390 Okay, well, I mean, on another network this morning Democratic Senator Tim Kaine said impeachment or contempt, it is premature, 00:07:28.400 --> 00:07:36.550 Congressman Khanna. And the Deputy Attorney General said bring it on. They don't seem to be taking this very seriously and if you just don't have the 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:47.150 math in the Senate including at least now this Democratic Senator not being convinced, doesn't that sort of show that you're at the limit of pressure? 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:56.190 No, we only need the House for inherent contempt and we're building a bipartisan coalition and it would fine Pam Bondi for every day that she's not releasing 00:07:56.200 --> 00:08:05.630 these documents. I'll tell you why I've talked to the survivors, why this is such a slap in the face. One of the survivors said they released her name accidentally, but they still have not 00:08:05.640 --> 00:08:13.710 released the FBI file about the people who abused her at her request. And the problem here is that there are rich and 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:22.070 powerful people. We all know this. There are 1,200 victims. There are rich and powerful people who either engaged in this abuse, covered it up or were on this island. And what the American 00:08:22.080 --> 00:08:32.190 people want to know is who are these people? And instead of holding them accountable, Pam Bondi is breaking the law and this is the corrupt system the Epstein class of people are sick of. So, 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:40.230 I believe we're going to get bipartisan support in holding her accountable and a committee of Congress should determine whether these redactions are justified 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:49.870 or not. Sometime in January when you all come back, I assume that that'll happen. I want to ask you though, Congressman Khanna, there have been images released 00:08:49.880 --> 00:08:59.670 in the past 48 hours. Some of them include former President Bill Clinton. There's at least one image of Donald Trump. I should say neither man has been 00:08:59.680 --> 00:09:08.510 accused of any wrongdoing related to Epstein though they clearly knew him. But since Friday's publication, we're showing the image here now. 00:09:08.520 --> 00:09:16.590 One of the pictures was pulled down. There were 15 images total that were then redacted from the DOJ website. And 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:24.630 it's it's kind of hard to see, but it's an open drawer with a photo of President Trump. Um 00:09:24.640 --> 00:09:35.230 Why do you think that was pulled down? Because the Deputy Attorney General says this was victims saying that their privacy or somehow their integrity was 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:43.790 being compromised by having that image published. Well, I'm less concerned about that photo. I don't know the facts. My 00:09:43.800 --> 00:09:52.790 concern is the major documents that we know are out there that haven't been released. The 60-count indictment that shows massive financial fraud and 00:09:52.800 --> 00:10:01.670 foreign interference, the prosecution memo. And look, they put out these Bill Clinton pictures. [ __ ] But well, there there there allegations 00:10:01.680 --> 00:10:10.670 that there foreign governments that potentially were involved. And that all needs to come out. And it needs to come out in the indictments, it needs to come out in the prosecution memos. But the 00:10:10.680 --> 00:10:20.230 reality is they put out these pictures for Bill Clinton. [ __ ] it, put it all out. But don't distract from the fundamental issue, which is who are these powerful people who would visited 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:28.390 rape the rape island. I mean, there 1,200 victims and it defies common sense that it was just Epstein and and Maxwell. And they're hiding something. And you know why the American people are 00:10:28.400 --> 00:10:37.510 so upset? My X account had MAGA supporters supporting me for the first time, saying, "You know, Pam Bondi whiffed according to Susan Walsh. She is 00:10:37.520 --> 00:10:46.470 uh breaking the law. She needs to be held accountable." You're referring to the Vanity Fair quote that the chief of staff gave saying the whiffed. And she said that 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:55.110 uh Pam Bondi gave them binders full of nothingness. And then when it came to the client list, she said it was on her desk. There is no client list, quote, 00:10:55.120 --> 00:11:04.270 and it sure as hell wasn't on her desk. Do you see that as an acknowledgement here though that that the politics have overtaken the substance? 00:11:04.280 --> 00:11:13.110 No, for us it's about the survivors. And if you look at Thomas Massie and my comments the morning of the release, we were giving uh Blanche the benefit of 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:22.350 the doubt. We said if it's not all there, fine. Just get the information out. It's when the survivors said that this is an insult, this is a slap in 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:30.390 their face that we aren't getting the truth about who these men were on the on rape island, that we started sounding the alarm. And this is more 00:11:30.400 --> 00:11:38.990 documents of nothingness. And I guess the question the American people are have even to me is is the system so corrupt? Is the system so corrupt that 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:47.230 Thomas Massie and you defy the odds, pass a bill through a discharge petition, get the Senate, get the president to sign it, and still these 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:55.670 rich and powerful people are being protected? Who has this kind of hold on our government? What are they hiding? Why are they not releasing this? 00:11:55.680 --> 00:12:05.950 Well, you want what? People involved in those initial investigations down in Florida re-examined and possibly prosecuted? 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:14.630 I want the information out which was in that prosecution memo that Acosta disregarded, that were in those indictments, that there were 60 counts 00:12:14.640 --> 00:12:24.550 against Epstein. Only two counts were prosecuted. I want to know who were these other people who were on the Epstein's rape island, who were the people who saw young girls being paraded 00:12:24.560 --> 00:12:33.750 around at parties, 13, 14, 15-year-old and didn't say anything. And why why is it so hard when there's a law requiring these names to come out? What we're 00:12:33.760 --> 00:12:42.350 seeing is survivors' names come out, but not the men who abused them. And instead of instead of holding elites accountable, Pam Bondi is breaking the law. 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:51.790 Well, uh we will see when you gentlemen come back to work sometime in January what your next measures are. It sounds like you've made clear you're moving um 00:12:51.800 --> 00:12:58.360 action against the attorney general. Thank you both for your reaction today.