WEBVTT 00:00:00.680 --> 00:00:09.870 We're monitoring new fallout tonight from the release of the latest batch of the Epstein files. The Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, was appearing before Congress today, and as he was 00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:18.390 testifying, he attempted to explain the gap between these two statements you're about to hear from Lutnick himself regarding his relationship with Jeffrey 00:00:18.400 --> 00:00:27.990 Epstein. My wife and I decided that I will never be in the room with that disgusting person 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:36.270 ever again. I did have lunch with him as I was on a boat going across on a family vacation. 00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:44.630 Newly released emails from the Justice Department showed that Secretary Lutnick actually stayed in contact with Jeffrey Epstein even after Epstein had pled 00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:52.670 guilty to soliciting sex from an underage girl and had to register as a sex offender. And that contact continued including in business ties with Jeffrey 00:00:52.680 --> 00:01:00.990 Epstein well after we heard from Lutnick in that interview just a few months ago where he said that he and his wife distanced themselves from their neighbor 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:09.070 in New York in 2005 after just being inside of his Manhattan town home. Appearing before senators today, the secretary tried repeatedly to clean up 00:01:09.080 --> 00:01:17.670 the record that includes the details of a family visit to Jeffrey Epstein's private island. >> I did not have any 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:26.910 relationship with him. I barely had anything to do with that person. I literally met him three times over 14 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:36.590 years with wide spread in between. That's all I can remember. That's all there is in the documents. And amid calls from Democrats for Howard 00:01:36.600 --> 00:01:46.110 Lutnick to resign over the inconsistencies in those statements, this is what we heard in the White House press briefing today. Secretary Lutnick remains a very 00:01:46.120 --> 00:01:54.430 important member of President Trump's team and the president fully supports the secretary. I will just point out that there are a lot of wins in the news this week that 00:01:54.440 --> 00:02:03.150 people in this room have not asked about cuz you continue to ask questions about the same subject. Of course, this story has stayed in the headlines because there's new 00:02:03.160 --> 00:02:12.270 information and survivors have been saying that they still want accountability here for what has happened. The Justice Department in just the last 24 hours or so has unredacted 00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:20.670 more names in the Epstein documents. You watched right here on the Source last night as the Deputy Attorney General had said that he made public the name of the 00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:30.030 former Victoria's Secret CEO, that's Les Wexner, after Congressman Thomas Massie had gone to the Justice Department but able to look at the unredacted files and 00:02:30.040 --> 00:02:40.430 said that in at least in one place Les Wexner's name was baselessly redacted. The Justice Department has also since unredacted the names of other people 00:02:40.440 --> 00:02:49.550 including Epstein's long-time assistant, a former French modeling agent. They, along with Les Wexner, are listed in that 2019 FBI document as 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:59.150 co-conspirators of Jeffrey Epstein's. Now, being listed as a co-conspirator doesn't mean they're guilty of any crimes. They were never charged with anything. But what investigators 00:02:59.160 --> 00:03:07.830 uncovered about people in Epstein's orbit is what a lot of people, including the survivors, want to know. Republican Congressman from Kentucky, 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:16.910 Thomas Massie, is back here with me tonight. And thank you, sir, for for being back here. I believe you went back to the the Justice Department today. If you did, what more can you tell us about 00:03:16.920 --> 00:03:25.070 what you saw? Well, I saw that Lutnick shared um his phone number with Epstein and that their 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:33.670 assistants were setting up phone calls between them. So, there is at least that other connection. I didn't find any new names today. I didn't have a lot of time 00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:43.070 to spend there. But the main, by the way, it's a room with four computers and it's busy all the time. There's always at least four congressmen in there. And 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:52.550 the main complaint that I hear uh as we search through these files is that when you unredact some of the files, you encounter more redactions. And then when 00:03:52.560 --> 00:04:02.390 we ask the DOJ, "Why are these files redacted? Why can't we remove the redactions?" The DOJ says, "Well, that's the form in which we received the files." Now, here's the 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:10.870 problem with that, Caitlan. The legislation that Ro Khanna and I wrote directs the Attorney General to produce the documents, but they have to 00:04:10.880 --> 00:04:19.150 give all the documents that are in the possession not of the DOJ but also of the FBI and also of the um US attorneys. 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:28.990 So, what's happened, it seems, is that the US attorneys and or the FBI are have redacted documents, given them to the DOJ, and then the DOJ hasn't done their 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:38.390 diligence to go get the original documents. But the whole point of letting lawmakers go into that room is that you're supposed to be able to see what we cannot see. What is still 00:04:38.400 --> 00:04:46.670 redacted so you can look at the redactions and basically verify that they are warranted. And yet you're saying even what you're looking at that 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:55.910 is supposed to be unredacted is still redacted, right? Correct. Sometimes you remove the black redaction and you see a white redaction. And sometimes you try 00:04:55.920 --> 00:05:05.230 to remove the black redaction and it's all completely redacted still. So, that's a problem. Also, there are files that are referenced in the files we're 00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:14.350 reading, but you can't find those files in in the document production. So, that's another problem. And specifically, we're very concerned that 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:24.110 we can't see the 302 forms. And I have reason to be concerned because, as you know, you and I discovered yesterday live on air when the Attorney General, 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:32.510 Deputy Attorney General, started unredacting files while I was talking to you, they have over redacted the files that they've released. They have 00:05:32.520 --> 00:05:43.270 withheld co-conspirators' names. And by the way, one thing I would like to add to that about that document that listed Les Wexner in it is that it's he's a 00:05:43.280 --> 00:05:51.750 co-conspirator not of drugs, not of money laundering, but of child sex trafficking. That is That is the case 00:05:51.760 --> 00:06:02.750 that was being tried that he's a co-conspirator in. And one more thing, Caitlan. Our bill says that the DOJ has to release all internal documents, 00:06:02.760 --> 00:06:12.070 emails, notes about decisions of whether to prosecute or not prosecute, investigate or not investigate. Well, that document was in 2019 where they 00:06:12.080 --> 00:06:20.350 considered him a co-conspirator. We need to see the document or documents where they decided not to prosecute him. 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:29.950 So, that document yesterday where it says co-conspirator, you're saying was where they were attempting to put together a child sex trafficking case against 00:06:29.960 --> 00:06:38.510 multiple people but including the former Victoria's Secret CEO, Les Wexner. Correct. And it wasn't an accidental redaction. He doesn't look like a young 00:06:38.520 --> 00:06:48.870 woman. I want to know who made the redaction. Are they tracking that at the DOJ? And you want to know also, which I think is a good question, which is 00:06:48.880 --> 00:06:57.590 why that case wasn't ultimately brought. I mean, those were the internal deliberations that I believe Todd Blanche, when he held that press conference, said they did not believe 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:06.070 they were obligated legally to produce that. Correct. But they are obligated to produce the decision about whether to 00:07:06.080 --> 00:07:14.870 prosecute or not prosecute. We anticipated this when we wrote the legislation. That's why we included in there that they have to release internal 00:07:14.880 --> 00:07:25.390 documents about decisions. Typically, under a FOIA um request, they wouldn't have to release that. That is why we put that exception in our bill. 00:07:25.400 --> 00:07:33.710 So, you're going in there. You're saying that you see documents. Last night you said you saw names that shouldn't be redacted that were redacted. Today you're seeing documents that are just 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:41.910 redacted when you should be viewing totally unredacted documents behind this behind closed doors in this private room. And that you're also seeing, you 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:51.710 know, or you're not seeing uh documents that should be in there that aren't in there. I mean, do you trust the Justice Department at this point right now based on what you can see behind the scenes? 00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:59.750 Well, if they'll admit that they're making mistakes and that their document production is not done, I can trust them. But I can't 00:07:59.760 --> 00:08:10.030 trust them if they say, as Todd Blanche did in his press conference, that "This is it. There's no more. It's over." That can't be true. And so tomorrow, we're 00:08:10.040 --> 00:08:19.390 going to have Pam Bondi in the Judiciary Committee. So, I'll have 5 minutes to ask her these questions. And do you think you'll get these answers? 00:08:19.400 --> 00:08:29.510 I hope I do. And what happens if you don't? You know, it's hard to refer a contempt 00:08:29.520 --> 00:08:39.390 or things like that on an Attorney General to the Attorney General. This is the problem that you run into. And so it it's going to be very difficult, but we 00:08:39.400 --> 00:08:49.550 can compel other people to come testify like the Oversight Committee is doing. I'm no longer on the Oversight Committee. I'm on the Judiciary Committee. But the Oversight Committee 00:08:49.560 --> 00:08:57.670 can compel some of these people that are named in these files to come and testify. Yeah. Have you heard from the Justice Department directly or is it 00:08:57.680 --> 00:09:05.830 just the tweets at you that that you've you that that you've heard from them on? heard from them on? just the tweets at Where they're pushing at you? Where they're pushing at you? There is communication between my staff There is communication between my staff 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:13.990 and Justice Department staff. and Justice Department staff. Um but I haven't heard, for instance, haven't heard, for instance, from Todd from Todd Blanche directly. Um but I Blanche directly. Okay. Okay. And you mentioned Secretary Lutnick. You said Lutnick. You said that you saw an emails 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:23.390 that And you mentioned Secretary today. you saw an emails today. Was it Was it Lut Howard Lutnick directly or Lutnick directly or was it an assistant was it an assistant sharing his phone sharing his phone number with Jeffrey number with Jeffrey Epstein? Lut Howard Epstein? Sharing his phone number and 00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:32.550 saying, Sharing his phone number and saying, "We want to set up a call "We want to set up a call um between the two." um between the two." And I'm I'm pretty sure those calls happened. pretty sure those calls happened. And Why are you pretty sure? Why are you pretty sure? 00:09:32.560 --> 00:09:40.990 Because they, Because they, you know, they you know, they there's no email that there's no email that indicates that it didn't happen. indicates that it didn't happen. Secretary Lutnick today, Secretary Lutnick today, uh uh as you heard, you'd you heard, you'd called on him to resign 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:49.390 called on him to resign before he came before he came out today and out today and acknowledged that yes, he acknowledged that yes, he did go to did go to Jeffrey Epstein's island as Jeffrey Epstein's island with his family and another couple with his family and another couple in 2012. in 2012. 00:09:49.400 --> 00:09:57.830 Obviously, he had said that they'd cut had said that they'd cut off contact off contact back in 2005. Obviously, he back in 2005. Based on what you heard today, did that you heard today, did that change your change your mind at all? Based on what mind at all? 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:07.350 It solidified my decision. It It solidified my decision. Look, the problem isn't that he went to Epstein Island. That That's not a crime. It's not appropriate, I would say, to take 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:15.470 your family to an island where people knew that bad things were happening. Would the the problem is 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:23.590 how do you have confidence in Secretary of Commerce who lied about it just recently? Like that podcast wasn't that long ago. 00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:32.190 He lied about it recently, and then he was forced, only when he was sworn in, to give a truthful answer. And I think it's a matter of confidence in the 00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:41.430 people who are leading this country. And I don't have confidence in somebody who will lie like that. House Speaker Mike Johnson said today that you were you should stop playing 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:49.710 political games, and he said that Howard Lutnick is a great Commerce Secretary. What's your response to that, sir? The speaker has to do what Donald Trump 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:59.070 wants. The The speaker right now, I think we're stalled on a vote in the House um because he can't get the bill passed, and he can't afford to lose any 00:10:59.080 --> 00:11:08.829 political capital. So, what he's decided to do, instead of signing with the American people or signing with our Republican conference, he's signing with Donald Trump, and basically doing 00:11:08.839 --> 00:11:18.470 whatever Donald Trump wants him to do over here. Republican Congressman Thomas Massie, thank you for joining us again tonight. I appreciate you coming back here on the show. Thanks, Kaitlan. Maybe my voice 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:24.480 will come back next time. Yeah, uh we'll get you some tea. Thank you so much, sir.