WEBVTT 00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:13.589 Please raise your hands if you have still not been able to meet with this Department of Justice. 00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:23.029 That was one of the quieter moments from a contentious and protocol busting hearing over the handling of the Epstein files. We will talk to one of the congressmen who helped get these 00:00:23.039 --> 00:00:31.109 documents released, Thomas Massie. But first, a look at the growing fallout from the files with ABC's Jay O'Brien. 00:00:31.119 --> 00:00:41.910 >> A combative hearing on Capitol Hill this week spiraling out of control. >> Shame on you. >> Oh, for goodness sakes. This is pathetic. This is pathetic, Mr. 00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:51.029 >> Attorney General Pam Bondi facing off against the House Judiciary Committee over the Department of Justice's handling of the release of more than three million pages of records tied to 00:00:51.039 --> 00:01:00.229 convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. I am deeply sorry for what any victim any victim has been through, especially 00:01:00.239 --> 00:01:09.750 as a result of that monster. >> You redacted the names of abusers, enablers, accompllices, and co-conspirators. Even worse, you 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:18.149 shockingly failed to redact many of the victims names. >> The attorney general sitting just rows in front of Epstein survivors as she 00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:26.710 traded attacks with lawmakers. And I told you about that attorney general before you started. >> You don't tell me. >> Oh, I did tell you because we saw what you did in the Senate. 00:01:26.720 --> 00:01:36.870 >> Lawyer, not even a lawyer. >> Pressed by Republican Congressman Thomas Massie, who co-wrote the law requiring the release of the files. >> Within 40 minutes, Wexner's name was 00:01:36.880 --> 00:01:46.310 added back. >> Within 40 minutes of me catching you redhanded. >> Red hand. [laughter] There was one redaction where he's listed as a cocon. 00:01:46.320 --> 00:01:55.590 And we invited you in. This guy has Trump derangement syndrome. He needs to get You're a failed politician. >> A legal representative for Less Wexner, 00:01:55.600 --> 00:02:04.389 telling ABC News, the assistant US attorney told Mr. Wexner's legal counsel in 2019 that Mr. Wexner was neither a co-conspirator nor target in any 00:02:04.399 --> 00:02:14.790 respect. Afterward, some of the Epstein survivors responding to Bondie's refusal to face them directly. >> She had three opportunities to address survivors. We stood up and all she had 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:24.070 to do was turn around and she could not even turn around and face us. >> Bondi's hearing coming just one day after Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:33.110 was forced to defend his repeated mentions in the DOJ's files after previously saying he distanced himself from Epstein, his one-time neighbor. In 2005, 00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:42.550 >> my wife and I decided that I will never be in the room with that disgusting person ever again. So, I was never in 00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:51.030 the room with him socially, for business, or for even philanthropy. If that guy was there, I wasn't going 00:02:51.040 --> 00:03:00.229 cuz he's gross. That's my story. A one and absolutely done. But emails released by the DOJ show Lutnik and Epstein 00:03:00.239 --> 00:03:09.910 remained in touch years after Epstein first pleaded guilty to sex crimes in 2008, including a 2012 lunch attended by Lutnik, his wife, nannies, daughters, 00:03:09.920 --> 00:03:20.309 and three sons. >> I did have lunch with him as I was on a boat going across on a family vacation. My wife was with me, as were my four 00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:29.430 children and nannies. >> I press Lutnik ahead of that hearing. Why did you keep contact with Jeffrey Epstein after he plead guilty? Looking forward to testifying today. 00:03:29.440 --> 00:03:38.789 >> Did you mischaracterize your relationship with him? >> Yes, please. >> More than 6 years since Jeffrey Epstein's death and the fallout from his crimes still reverberating. From Silicon 00:03:38.799 --> 00:03:47.990 Valley to Hollywood to Wall Street, where Katherine Rumler, the top lawyer at Goldman Sachs who served as White House counsel during the Obama administration, announced her 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:56.390 resignation effective in June. In emails, she called Epstein Uncle Jeffrey and sweetie and advised him on how to respond to questions about his sex 00:03:56.400 --> 00:04:04.550 crimes. A spokesperson for Rumler telling ABC News, quote, "Miss Rumler has done nothing wrong and has nothing to hide. Nothing in the record suggests 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:13.509 otherwise." The impact of the files spanning the globe from the United Kingdom to France, Norway, and Dubai, where the CEO of DP World, Dubai's 00:04:13.519 --> 00:04:23.110 largest port operator, Sultan Ahmed bin Salam, stepped down Friday, revealed by US lawmakers as the recipient of this email, where Epstein said he quote loved 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:31.990 the torture video. DP World did not respond to an ABC News request for comment. and the UK Prime Minister Kier Stormer facing political pressure over 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:40.390 his appointment and then later firing of his one-time ambassador to the US, Peter Mandlesen, who emails show also corresponded with Epstein. 00:04:40.400 --> 00:04:49.670 >> Before he was appointed ambassador, Mandlesson was asked directly about the nature of his relationship 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:58.310 with Epstein. The information now available makes clear that the answers he gave 00:04:58.320 --> 00:05:09.029 were lies. And Martha, President Trump this week defending his attorney general's appearance in that fiery hearing, posting that she did quote fantastic. Martha, 00:05:09.039 --> 00:05:17.909 >> our thanks to Jay O'Brien. I'm joined now by Republican Congressman Thomas Massie of Kentucky who helped lead the efforts to release the Epstein files. 00:05:17.919 --> 00:05:29.029 Good morning to you, Congressman. I would like your overall reaction to the hearing this week and Pam Bondi's performance combiveness. 00:05:29.039 --> 00:05:40.629 >> I I don't think she did very well. She came with a a a book full of insults, one for each congressperson. She obviously had one for me. And um you 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:51.350 know, I've been there when Merrick Garland is there. Obviously, politically, I don't agree with him, but he performed much better in terms of at least not looking bad. And 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:59.430 unfortunately, we didn't get the answers we wanted about the Epstein Files Transparency Act from her. >> You did you get any of the answers you 00:05:59.440 --> 00:06:07.510 wanted? >> No. But she did come off her script and engage with me about this um production 00:06:07.520 --> 00:06:17.590 of documents where she admitted that 40 minutes after I pointed out to the DOJ that they had overredacted some of the documents, they did unredact those 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:26.790 documents. So it's clear they've made mistakes in the document production. At least she acknowledges that tacitly and it's clear that their work is not done 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:36.790 here yet. And and and I want to go to those uh those some of those unredacted files. You and Congressman Roana said names of some of the men who were 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:45.670 redacted shouldn't have been redacted. They then sent that back to you and two of them were not redacted. But on 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:55.510 Friday, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch accused you and Congressman Kana of unmasking those people, saying they had nothing to do with Epstein or Ma or 00:06:55.520 --> 00:07:04.710 Maxwell. They were from an FBI lineup years ago. What's your response to that? >> Well, three hours before Todd Blanch 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:12.790 himself unredacted those names, I told him in an exost, which I know he read because he reposted it, that those may 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:22.070 be men in a lineup. And then I went on TV and said, "Those may be men in a lineup." And it was actually the DOJ who released those names, which is fine, but 00:07:22.080 --> 00:07:30.870 they omitted the context that I provided, which is these may be men in the lineup. Now, there were two men who needed to be named. One of whom has 00:07:30.880 --> 00:07:41.670 already resigned. The Emirate uh Sultan resigned for as a CEO of a very large company because we released his name. 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:50.790 And there's another man, Leslie Wexner. I'll add him to the list with Jess Staley and Leon Black who need to be investigated right now. They've appeared 00:07:50.800 --> 00:08:00.070 in these files. Leslie Wexner is the one who, you know, Pam Bondi said, "Oh, he's appeared thousands of times in these documents. We're not covering up 00:08:00.080 --> 00:08:10.469 anything." But I pointed out to her they redacted his name from the one document that says child sex trafficking co-conspirator. And my question is, who 00:08:10.479 --> 00:08:19.270 is the person at DOJ who redacted Leslie Wexner's name from a document tile titled child sex trafficking with 00:08:19.280 --> 00:08:28.550 co-conspirator next to his name. >> And and I and I want to say right now that Wexner denies and they say he was not a co co-conspirator. Uh Wexner has a 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:38.709 statement. The assistant US attorney told Mr. Wexner's legal counsel in 2019 that Mr. Wexner was neither co-conspirator nor target in any respect. Mr. Wexner cooperated fully by 00:08:38.719 --> 00:08:48.790 providing background information on Epstein and was never contacted again. But I I'd like to move on if if we can. Yesterday the DOJ sent Congress a letter 00:08:48.800 --> 00:08:58.230 explaining the reason for all these reactions. So you are not satisfied with that? >> No. They're citing deliberative process 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:07.750 privilege in order not to release some of the documents. The problem with that is the bill that Roana and I wrote says that they must release internal memos 00:09:07.760 --> 00:09:16.710 and notes and emails about their decisions on whether to prosecute or not prosecute, whether to investigate or not investigate. It's important they follow 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:27.190 that because then we could find why they didn't prosecute Leslie Wexner, what was the decision tree there, and also why in 2008 they gave Jeffrey Epstein such a 00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:36.150 light sentence. And finally, I know the DOJ wants to say they're done with this document production. The problem is they've taken down documents before we 00:09:36.160 --> 00:09:44.710 were able to go over to the DOJ and look at the unredacted versions. They took down some of the most significant documents. Two of them involving 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:53.990 Virginia DFR's um case and other things. the picture of of Epstein at in a room 00:09:54.000 --> 00:10:02.389 where it's got CIA written on the boxes that's been taken down. We want to be able to look at all these files. They can't keep those documents down after 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:10.870 they've already produced them. >> I I want to talk to you about one of the moments in the hearing and that is the attorney general would not look at the 00:10:10.880 --> 00:10:18.949 Epstein survivors behind her. Did that surprise you? 00:10:18.959 --> 00:10:28.790 I I think that was kind of cold on her part. Um I think she was afraid to. And look, these survivors would love to have a meeting. It's it's not about Bill 00:10:28.800 --> 00:10:38.069 Clinton and it's not about Donald Trump. This Epste files transparency act was about getting these survivors justice. We've got some degree of transparency, 00:10:38.079 --> 00:10:47.509 but it's called the [clears throat] Department of Justice, not the Department of Transparency. And so what these survivors need, they need to see some of their own 302 forms, which 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:56.550 haven't been released, and they also need to see some of the men that they've implicated prosecuted. >> Do you still have confidence in Pam 00:10:56.560 --> 00:11:05.750 Bondi as attorney general? I >> I don't think Pam Bondi has confidence in Pam Bondi. She She wasn't confident 00:11:05.760 --> 00:11:13.990 enough to engage in anything but name calling in a hearing. And so, no, I don't have confidence in her. She hasn't 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:23.350 got any sort of accountability there at the DOJ. When I asked her specifically who redacted Leslie Wexner's name from the one document that mattered, she 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:31.590 couldn't give me an answer. She wouldn't give me an answer. But ultimately, it's her who is responsible for the document production according to our law, the 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:40.230 attorney general. It's not Todd Blanch. It's not the people below them. You can assign tasks to people, but you can't assign your responsibility. And and just 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:50.310 very quickly, if you will, you've supported most of what Donald Trump has done during his presidency, but because of your actions with these files, he is supporting your primary opponent and has 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:58.870 waged very personal attacks on you. I know we just have a few seconds here, but just your reaction to that. 00:11:58.880 --> 00:12:08.710 >> Look, this is about the [clears throat] Epstein class, the people who are funding the attacks against me. They may or may not be implicated in these files, but they were certainly rubbing 00:12:08.720 --> 00:12:18.470 shoulders with the people who are in these files. They're billionaires who are friends with these people. And that's what I'm up against in Washington DC. Donald Trump told us that even 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:28.629 though, you know, he he had dinner with these kinds of people in New York City and West Palm Beach that he would be transparent, but he's not. He's still in 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:37.670 with the Epstein class. This is the Epstein administration and they're attacking me for trying to get these files released. >> And again, I'm going to say uh President 00:12:37.680 --> 00:12:47.839 Trump has not been accused of anything criminal here. Thank you very much for joining us this morning, Congressman. We appreciate it. >> Thank you, Martha. The round.