MASSIEFLIX

Holding the Government Hostage Over the Epstein Files — Free the People with Matt Kibbe (Ep. 357)

Oct 29, 2025 · 56:44 matt-kibbeepsteinspendinggovernment-shutdown

Inside the discharge-petition fight: Massie explains why he tied the Epstein file release to the continuing resolution vote, the procedural rules that were used to block him, and what comes next.

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  1. Welcome to Kib on Liberty. In the second half of my marathon conversation with Congressman Thomas Massie, we're going to talk about why he thinks he will
  2. succeed on the Epstein discharge petition, releasing those names, why he is opposed to the war in Gaza, and why
  3. the Israel first lobby is spending millions of dollars trying to un unseat him in his district in northern Kentucky. Check it out.
  4. [music]
  5. >> [music] >> Welcome to Kibby on Liberty. [music]
  6. Okay, Congressman, we're at part two of our government lockdown marathon. Finally, the government's locked down instead of the American people. I guess
  7. that's a win. >> I think so. And uh we did we just did a very deep dive on the beef industrial complex and and what market reforms we
  8. could do to uh free American cattle ranchers to produce more American beef. And I want to get into some more spicy
  9. topics. You you're kind of I don't know if [snorts] you know this, but you're a bit of a pariah in this town um because you're constantly causing trouble. And
  10. and my theory is is that the the primary reason Speaker Mike Johnson has not reconvened the House is because the first thing that's going
  11. to happen is he's going to swear in a 218th vote that you need with Roana to to force a discharge petition on the
  12. Epstein files. Is is that the only reason we're we're not convening the House? Um there may be other reasons but it is absolutely true that um as long as
  13. he keeps us from reconvening the 218th signature for the Epstein uh discharge petition will not become a
  14. congressperson. Uh it's even goes even one step beyond that Matt u we are having proforma
  15. sessions. So the one of the reasons we do proform sessions is the Senate is still meeting and the House and the Senate need to
  16. both be meeting for Congress to be meeting. And so about every four legislative days, a member from maybe
  17. Maryland or somewhere near in Pennsylvania takes the gavl gavels in. They say the prayer and the pledge and they announce when they will meet again
  18. and they gave back out. The speaker could be signing, could be swearing in during that proformance session this newest member and then it takes seven
  19. days before we can have the vote on the Epstein um release of the files. It takes seven days, legislative days and
  20. each of those proform sessions during a shutdown we have ascertained counts toward those seven days. So, not only is
  21. he keeping this thing from starting to happen, he's keeping the clock from moving and um he's keeping a congressional
  22. district in Arizona from being represented. She's a Democrat. like I'm I'm not I'm in no rush to have another Democrat in the House of Representatives, but also
  23. presumably she she won an election and she's not getting paid because I mean I know that's not something people are
  24. thinking about or care about, but um it's there are there are implications to this, but he would tell you that he
  25. doesn't want us here because he doesn't want the Democrats making dilatory motions and he probably doesn't want Republic Republicans who for instance
  26. would be happy to pay the soldiers right now. Like I would go to the floor right now and vote. In fact, if the floor were open, I would make a motion to pay our
  27. soldiers and pass that part of the spending bill. And and so the speaker wants to keep everything hostage, including the soldiers paychecks. And so
  28. he doesn't want any movement whatsoever. He's he's carved out. It's an all or nothing CR. Now, ironically, it expires in November. So, if the shutdown goes to
  29. November, he is going to have to convene again to put another, you know, some kind of bill on the floor. >> So, I I was at your press conference
  30. with Ro Kana on the Capitol grounds. That was quite a while ago now. Um, and the the reaction from not just Mike
  31. Johnson, but uh President Trump and most Republicans has been sort of confounding to me. like I don't I don't understand
  32. precisely what the opposition is given that they have talked about doing this and demanded that we do this for years and suddenly you're like okay let I'll
  33. I'll help you let's do this um first of all why are you doing it and second of all why are they so opposed to you doing it >> I I just thought of something dealing with the last question and then let me
  34. dig into that I I should have mentioned that what Speaker Johnson is doing is unprecedented okay whenever we've had a shutdown in the past and I've been
  35. through maybe about half a dozen of these. We always still meet because presumably that we're responsible for the shutdown. And so if you're going to
  36. get out of this situation, you should be meeting. And also, if you're in the majority, why wouldn't you want to have hearings? Why wouldn't we want to uncover the things that happened during
  37. the Biden administration? So, he's calling it the Schumer shutdown, but I'm calling it the Epstein recess. He's not only are we shut down, we're in recess.
  38. And that's unconventional, unprecedented in the 13 years I've been in Congress. The other thing that Speaker Johnson established a precedent on himself until
  39. Speaker Johnson had been speaker. I never had observed this, but he swore into members during a pro-form session. They happen to be Republicans. And now
  40. he's saying he's has no real good reason for why he's not swearing in the Democrat during proform session. Okay.
  41. To the Epstein thing. Um, one of my favorite memes on the internet. Well, before I get there, let me set it up.
  42. The white, the president himself has called this Epstein, the Epstein files a hoax. And um, we know it's not a hoax.
  43. the my press conference with Ro Connor in involved almost a dozen survivors of Epstein sex trafficking ring and they
  44. were there to tell us there are other men who they were trafficked to and they've together collectively they know what some of those names are in fact
  45. through their lawyer their lawyer uh has informed me there are at least 20 names and he described their professions which I said to the FBI director Cash Patel
  46. when he was there but getting back to My favorite, one of my favorite memes on the internet was, "It's too bad Epstein
  47. killed himself before he realized this was a hoax." >> Yeah. >> Like, if it's a hoax, why are they resisting releasing the
  48. files? And it's because it's not a hoax. And then literally the day while I'm doing the the press conference with Roana and the survivors, the White House
  49. issued a statement saying it would be considered a hostile act if any Republican were to sign my discharge petition. Now, I got to give the three
  50. Republicans who have co-signed that with me a lot of credit. Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Boowbert, and Nancy Mace have been under extreme pressure, political pressure to take their names
  51. off that discharge petition. And I think that's another thing the speaker is hoping that the longer he drags this out, the more likely one of those people
  52. might take their name off, for instance. >> The pressure must be insane. >> It's over the top. It's >> because they need they need one to stop this. >> Correct.
  53. >> Yeah. Although uh if Speaker Johnson keeps putting this off long enough, in November there will be another new
  54. member of the House of Representatives who gets elected who has indicated I'm presuming the result of this election. It but um I think it's safe to do there
  55. will be another member in November. So, if they did get one off now to one person, one of my co-signers to unsign their name, uh, they could prevail until
  56. November, at which point I get another signer. So, they literally have to get two of these signers off to to keep it from happening. But that doesn't stop
  57. them from trying. And so, the pressure is when you get down to that one last, you know, house on the block that hasn't sold, for instance. If it's a development project, it's the same
  58. thing. the the price is high and they are all three of them are playing paying a large political price to represent
  59. their constituents and these survivors >> and that yeah that the victims themselves have paid um a horrible price for their
  60. courageousness in actually coming out >> well >> because they're dealing with a lot of pressure too >> here people say well why isn't it easy to come out as a victim and And when I
  61. was at this press conference with these women, I the the depth of the evil I didn't understand until they spoke it, which was as 14-year-old girls, they
  62. were told by a friend at high school, come over to this old guy's house, give him a massage, and he can make 200 bucks. By the way, he's got a nice swimming pool and all this other stuff.
  63. All you got to do is give him a massage. The massage turned into something else completely. and they he had their phone number and then through the shame of it
  64. he compelled them to show up at his beck and call whenever he wanted. And this is where it gets really evil. The only way they could get out of it of showing up
  65. and you know performing sexual favors for Jeffrey Epstein was if they found another girl at their high school who would do it in their place.
  66. And so they were they were coerced into and and one of the witnesses you witnesses survivors broke down in tears
  67. because she admitted she just said listen I was faced with finding a girl for him to take my place or going back
  68. there and doing that and I found another girl. And so what happens is now and I
  69. people are still doing this even after they know these are 15-year-old girls who were coerced into it by an adult man. They're saying, "Oh, you were a sex
  70. trafficker. You know, you trafficked these women, but they don't I I didn't really fully grasp how evil this is." is like it's one thing to do evil things to
  71. people but to make them do evil things and then once you once he causes you to be implicated then you don't want to come out because then that's what
  72. happens to you. Now there are people asking well why don't these women release the names and the reason is these are billionaires
  73. like that that so what happened is u epste once girls literally once they got to the age of consent they weren't
  74. exciting to him anymore and he would traffic them to his friends now so you might at this point they're going to say
  75. oh well there were prostitutes they were 18 they age of consent. Jeffrey Epstein was giving them something and then they they did, you know, sexual things
  76. um with these men. And so what happens is those men who have billions of dollars, they had money to pay off
  77. police departments, to, you know, to lose reports, to pay off judges. What they would typically do is they would uh
  78. the a lot of these girls were from families that weren't very affluent. they the family would end up with $150,000 up to $500,000 of money and the
  79. girl wouldn't testify. So basically that's one of the things they would do. But now they would just sue them into poverty for defamation.
  80. And if you don't have the power that the government has to discover these facts, then you can't you can't contest the
  81. defamation case well enough. and the the process is the punishment. They basically go broke just trying to hold
  82. up their name. So, um that's where this thing is. The speaker.
  83. All right. So, then there's two other components we really need to talk about. Uh one is the hearing with the FBI director. Oh, here's another thing the
  84. shutdown prevents. It prevents the attorney general from testifying in front of my committee. So, it's it's very convenient. It drags that out if
  85. we're having the shutdown doesn't prevent it. The recess does. M >> so the speaker is having a recess not just to avoid the the impending vote
  86. on this issue but to avoid any hearings whatsoever where this issue would come up like a hearing where the attorney general and the attorney general by the
  87. way the the judiciary committee of which I'm a member has jurisdiction over DOJ FBI ATF and each of those heads of those
  88. agencies out of tradition shows up whether you want to or not. You show up once a year and you and you do your
  89. thing and you you face every member of that committee. Well, that's being delayed right now too for Attorney General Bondi. Uh
  90. but so that's you know that's one thing where we had we did get the hearing with Cash Patel the FBI director and I had
  91. five minutes um and so as not to waste my five minutes I also took some extra time to introduce into the record five documents
  92. each of which shows that E Jeffrey Epstein was um an intelligence asset to to Israel and to the United states and
  93. so and even even if he's not there is a CIA file on Jeffrey Epstein that I want to see. I asked Cash Patel has he seen
  94. it and he he he didn't know if if it existed and I said well wouldn't you be interested in asking for that? Like
  95. that's one of the things you're allowed to see is the CIA file on Jeffrey Epstein. Like you're suspiciously uncurious about that. And then the other
  96. thing I pointed out to Cash Patel was that um the victims have done interviews with the FBI and
  97. those are memorialized in a form called a 302 and those 302 forms. You can't destroy those forms. Those are at the FBI and
  98. the victims know that that that they had these interviews. So, I pointed out that there were at least 20 uh perpetrators or people who
  99. participated or had women trafficked to them that are named in FBI files. And I asked him has he seen those 302 files.
  100. And remember the day before he he came before the House Judiciary Committee, he was in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee and he said there something
  101. that's too implausible to believe. He said that they they have no credible evidence that anybody else was involved
  102. in the sex trafficking other than Maxwell and Epstein. But so my question is are the are the victims not credible?
  103. Thank you for joining me today on Kib on Liberty and for being part of our fiercely independent audience. Every week my organization Free the People partners with Blaze TV to bring you this
  104. show. My guests bring smart perspectives on everything from current events to timeless philosophical debates. If you like what you hear, go to
  105. freethepeople.org/kol and support kib on liberty so we can continue to produce these honest conversations with interesting people.
  106. Now, let's get back to it. Isn't that almost objectively not true given the history and and and Epstein's
  107. original conviction? like there's a long history here of of [snorts] actual facts that have been released. >> I tried to parse his words.
  108. See, they're loathed to to perjure themselves in front of Congress. Um, we're starting to see Trump uh Trump's DOJ maybe prosecute some people during
  109. uh the Biden administration who may have perjured themselves. So, it's not a good thing to do to perjure yourself. So, and look, these are the people that
  110. interview criminals and figure out how to ask the questions so that they can get criminals to say things so they know
  111. how to answer the questions. And so, I parse it and try to look for the most charitable interpretation of their evasive answer. So, like in Cash Patel's
  112. evasive answer, you see the words credible. I see I see Speaker Johnson go to the podium every week during this shutdown and say there's no credible
  113. evidence. >> Well, credible is an that's that's a that's an opinion, right? >> It's not they're not saying
  114. prepoundonderance >> of the evidence. Like there are legal terms, but credible is some is a politician word. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's not it's not something you would
  115. use in a courtroom, I don't think. I mean, the jury would have to decide if somebody is credible, but um so they say
  116. no credible. And then I think maybe the other place he's trying to be um artful
  117. with his words maybe is a lot of these women were 18 by the time, as I said before, by the time
  118. Jeffrey Epstein offered them as favors to his friends, they were already age of consent. And so maybe he's
  119. compartmentalizing when he, you know, was answering that he's thinking about sex or maybe he's thinking they're prostitutes now. And if he thinks about
  120. them as prostitutes, then they're not being trafficked because it's consensual relationship or something. Here's the facts. There's there's at
  121. least 20 men, rich and powerful men, who are implicated in FBI files. Um, and none of those names have been given to
  122. us. And there's a there's a parallel investigation going on in the House by James Comr, the oversight committee.
  123. And I like James Comr. He's from Kentucky, but he the stuff the material he's getting is carefully curated. They're
  124. not giving him any names. Um, and he hasn't produced a single name yet and and I've produced one. The
  125. victim's lawyer gave me one of the names. Um, and I said it in the hearing and I'm covered by speech or debate there. So, you may say, "Well, why were
  126. you able to say a name and you're not being sued for defamation?" Because the Constitution has something called speech or debate clause. The founders were
  127. highly annoyed that the king and and his cronies would either civily or criminally prosecute members of parliament for things they said in
  128. parliament and that would squaltch the debate. And so they put in our constitution that I can't be sued for defamation and I can't go to jail for
  129. anything I say in an official venue that's related to legislation. Well, there's Epstein legislation and I'm talking about that and so I'm protected
  130. in there. And you may say, "Well, why did you say only one name and not 20?" Well, number one, it's that's not my job. That's the FBI's job. And number
  131. two, if I prove to them there's 20 and they've got 60 names, they're only going to give us the 20. They're going to say, "Oh, okay. Well, there is 20." The
  132. reality is there's more than 20, right? And this is how you force them to give us all the names. Maybe I say there's 20 names. They give us 20 names. We cross
  133. reference it to our list and we say, "Well, no, you missed 10 of them, so there's actually 30." But uh and that is
  134. their job. Just like if if Cash Patel or or Pam Bondi would tell me, you know what, there there are other names and
  135. they are in our files and we are doing investigations to see whether they should be prosecuted. that that could be
  136. a suitable answer cuz that is their job. >> Well, it strikes me that Cash Patel was conveniently
  137. deferring to his staff. >> Yeah. Guess what? Those are those were Biden's staff, too. >> Right. Right. >> Like he's saying that, by the way, this
  138. is why we elected Donald Trump and this is why he put Cash Patel in there is because we didn't trust Joe Biden's homework. And so somebody needs to go
  139. check the homework. And so Cash Patel is relying on FBI agents who've who effed this up for over a decade
  140. >> and probably conspired to defeat Donald Trump. >> Correct. >> That's what's so it's it's mysterious. But I want to I want to get into I I can
  141. do some conjecture and maybe you want to or maybe you don't, but um I was told by a credible source that the the reason
  142. that that Trump flipped is not because Trump is on the list. And I I find it credible a credible argument that if you
  143. know if Trump was on the list, surely the Democrats would have would have released that. But, you know, maybe someone from his cabinet, maybe some of his close business associates in in New
  144. York. Um, a lot of powerful people that don't necessarily represent the Republican party, but it's not a Republican versus Democrat thing. It's a
  145. uni party thing. >> That's right. Once you get to billionaire level, you frequently you you'll find that these the same people that have fundraisers for Chuck Schumer
  146. now having fundraisers for Donald Trump, >> right? [clears throat] >> Is they once you get to billionaire level, you transcend the whole party game. You're just you're rich enough to
  147. influence whoever is in power. And uh in fact, that that gets to the billionaires who are against
  148. uh me in my like there are three billionaires. They're cons. They have donated to Republicans, but they've also donated to Democrats and they are not
  149. paragonss of the Republican platform like you know pro-abortion, trans activism, uh fundraisers for Chuck
  150. Schumer. So, but back to your main point before we get >> de I want to go there, but let's let's finish this. >> It's there's two reasons he's flipped.
  151. um one his rich and powerful friends who've donated to him or go to his dinner parties like um he doesn't want
  152. to embarrass them and because and they may in fact not even be guilty of a crime. They may just be very embarrassed
  153. that they were having extrammarital sex you know with these women for instance. Um, so that's that's one thing, but I think
  154. there's also the intelligence aspect of this that goes even deeper. Maybe Trump is on one plane and he's thinking, I
  155. can't embarrass my friends. But there may be people at the in the administration who are career people
  156. >> who are thinking on another plane. They're like, well, let's convince Trump he's going to embarrass his friends. when in reality what we're trying to do is protect our sources and methods which
  157. may involve sex trafficking. >> Yeah. >> And we don't want to embarrass our partner Israel in this time when the
  158. popularity for their war or support for their war [snorts] is at an all-time low. And now we're going to find out that their defense minister
  159. Ahood Barack you know met with was documented with Jeffrey Epstein three dozen times. um probably even while he
  160. was defense minister he he had been previously been prime minister I don't know that he knew Epstein during that period I'm not sure how much of those dates overlap but there are reasons that
  161. they want to protect them if there's reasons he's flipped and I don't think his children or JD Vance or even Pam
  162. Bondi or Cash Patel were read into all that when they originally said all of this stuff should be released I I mean,
  163. if it's a hoax, what were those binders that Pam Bondi gave out? Was she just fueling a hoax? >> Yeah, it see like it seems to fuel the
  164. the the biggest conspiracy theories about um you know, Israel kind of owning members of Congress and members of the
  165. administration. Um because the the magic flip from like, you know, we have to release the files and we have to hold the the Biden administration people that
  166. were part of that accountable to it's a hoax was was even too much for Donald Trump to pull off. >> He's pretty good.
  167. >> Yeah. >> Changing the narrative, but that that just didn't seem possible. >> And some people say, well, why is why is Mike Johnson why is he making our party
  168. walk the plank on this issue? like 80 this is an 80% issue and the 20 the other 20% just don't care. It's not that
  169. they're against releasing the files. 80% of Republicans and Democrats want these released and it's just that Mike Johnson is I mean he's jeopardizing our
  170. majority. I think ultimately when I force the vote and it happens, he may give permission hall passes, secret hall passes to some members of Congress in
  171. districts where the outcome of their next election could be determined by their by their complicitness in this
  172. cover up. U he may tell them wink wink nod nod. I'm going to go out here and say you shouldn't vote for this, but you probably should vote for this. By the
  173. way, this is not a conspiracy. Like I have been a party to these kinds of conversations behind closed doors with Republicans where they give people hall
  174. passes and the Democrats do it too, you know, in vulnerable districts. Well, you can vote you can vote for the CR because we know you're in cycle and
  175. >> it's it's normal practice. Yeah, it's normal. So, let me address a question I get a lot and you haven't asked yet, but
  176. it'll be in the comments from the trolls and the bot farms because they think they're really on to something here. Congressman Massie, why why the sudden
  177. interest? Why were you never interested in this before? And um why did this just occur to you now that Trump wants to keep the files secret? Why are you
  178. working so hard to get them released? Um, well, two two answers to that. One, you can go back and find three tweets
  179. when Joe Biden was president where I said these files should be released. [snorts] But, um, the the aspect of a using a
  180. discharge petition to do this did not occur to me because a discharge petition, it's it's a risky gambit. Most
  181. of the time people do it and they're not really trying to come to a legislative solution. They're just trying to find another way to get people on record,
  182. right? Oh, he didn't sign the discharge petition, right? My goal is to actually get to the vote. And it's only happened 20 times in the history of Congress has
  183. a discharge petition succeeded. It's only happened once in my 13 years in Congress. And it was under a very special circumstance when John Boehner
  184. had already announced he was no longer gonna be speaker and he wanted the actual outcome of the discharge petition. It was just too hard to for
  185. him to bring the vote. It was on the XM bank. So he wink wink nod nodded to some of the Republicans that you can do a discharge petition against me to get the
  186. uh XM bank vote. And they and they did it. So, long story short, [clears throat] it's considered heresy against the party and the majority to do
  187. it. And obviously, you need people in the majority to pull it off because the minority can't get you to 218 votes. And
  188. it did not occur to me that this could work and that every Democrat would vote for it until Roana offered an amendment in the rules
  189. committee. There was some bill not necessarily related to Epstein where he went and went to the rules committee and
  190. said, "I want to have a vote on this Epstein issue." And when you offer amendments, they're not [snorts] they can't be artfully drafted. They're
  191. usually pretty short to stay gerine. And so in that rules committee, there are nine Republicans and four Democrats.
  192. right now. He got one of the Republicans to vote for it and all of the Democrats to vote for his amendment. Now, he his
  193. he didn't carry the day. The amendment didn't get a vote on the floor of the rules committee. Didn't vote it out of the rules committee, but he got every Democrat and one Republican. And that's
  194. when I realized, well, if I took what his effort and drafted it more artfully,
  195. more legally, and it's it's not any fault of his that the amendment had things that people could poke holes in. But I thought, well, I could go to
  196. Roana and say, I'm I'm going to do this. Will you co-lead it? and then we we will write this so that it can succeed.
  197. And um and it wasn't until he offered that amendment in the rules committee that I realized it was possible to do this as a discharge petition. And so
  198. then it was once it's possible, I'll do it. And what's funny is you got people simultaneously on the internet complaining I never get anything done
  199. and and then also being against this, you know, Epstein thing >> because you might get it done. >> Yeah. I am literally against the wishes
  200. of every committee chairman, against the wishes of the speaker of the house, the majority leader, and the majority whip. I am going to get something done. I'm
  201. literally going to get a bill passed in the hardest way possible. It's only been done 20 times in the history of Congress and I'm about to pull it off and it and
  202. it is what Trump campaigned on. >> Yeah. >> If you made it this far into the show, it means I must be doing something
  203. right. Kib on Liberty is just one of the amazing products we created for the people. We tell emotionally compelling stories and produce educational videos
  204. for the liberty curious. Our award-winning documentaries personalize all things liberty, independence, creativity, hard work, integrity, and
  205. perseverance. After the show, check out our work at freethepeople.org. And if you like what you see, donate to support what we do. That's
  206. freethepeople.org. Now, back to the show. It's what every Republican campaigned on. And and I can't help but think you
  207. you mentioned the the obvious connection between Jeffrey Epstein and Israel and probably our deep state agencies and
  208. probably other governments that that we shouldn't be protecting. Um, I can't help but think that this is really a
  209. proxy fight about our involvement with Israel and and the way that we're funneling weapons that that Israel is
  210. using in Gaza. Do you think that's true? >> I think the universe of people involved is small enough that there's a lot of
  211. overlap. So for instance, the and this gets to the three billionaires who are trying to take me out of Congress. The one of them
  212. is Miriam Adlesen and we re she's the um the widow of Sheldon Adlesen who's the casino mogul in Las Vegas. She I believe
  213. was born in Israel and was in the the IDF. Um and she's a dual citizen now. So, she
  214. is legally allowed to advocate and spend millions of dollars getting me beat. But Donald Trump recently said in a speech
  215. that he once asked her, "Does she love more, the United States or Israel?" And she wouldn't answer him. And he said he thinks that could mean maybe she loves
  216. Israel more than the United States. >> By the way, he said that in front of the Israeli Parliament. Um, which was probably even
  217. sweeter. [laughter] >> I know, right? So, and by the way, if I were to say that, I would immediately Apac would call me anti-semitic for
  218. invoking some kind of dual loyalty trope, >> right? >> Um, but he just did it. >> He's the president. He gets away with
  219. it. >> Um, it's also what he got away with was cander. It's the truth. >> Yeah, he he does that sometimes. And and
  220. to to put a point on it, she refused to say that she was America first. Correct. >> Yes. >> And she could say it today.
  221. >> Yeah. >> Um but she won't because she's got a loyalty to Israel. And so u the two
  222. other billionaires are Paul Singer who interestingly is uh basically kept the
  223. uh the Washington Free Beacon. It's a it's a newspaper from being charitable. It's a It's a newspaper, but it's really just his mouthpiece. He's put all the
  224. money in it to to keep it going. And um I don't I don't think it was always considered a newspaper. I don't know. It may have been something else, but it's
  225. considered a newspaper now, so it probably has certain privileges and immunities of the press. But um he recently came out with a a hit piece.
  226. So, I'm pointing out that three billionaires who've given millions of dollars to smear my name, what what their motivations are, and they went
  227. through 13,000 of my donors and found one guy who's given $500 to me, who's uh
  228. a member of some organization that I didn't even know existed, by the way. He gave me the $500. This is ironic. At an
  229. event hosted by the founder of Muslims for Trump. So literally there's a whole or Muslim organization
  230. to help Trump in purple states like Michigan, okay, or Pennsylvania. This this was actually in Pennsylvania, which was a a swing state. And so this was
  231. part of Trump's coalition that got him elected, right? So, I'm thinking, okay, it's it should be safe enough to go to an event hosted by the guy that started
  232. Muslims for Trump, but some guy who's given to Democrat causes as well and founded an organization. I don't even
  233. know the name of it. They're using that $500 donation to write a hit piece in the Washington Free Beacon that is
  234. controlled by the billionaire who's actually I mean this is another I guess trope that could get me in trouble that this guy controls the media.
  235. >> But he own he basically owns the newspaper that's writing the hit piece to find this $500 donor. This was the best they could do out of 13,000
  236. grassroots donors. And by the way, I'm not sending the money back. The guy gave me $500 cuz I'm opposed to a war against
  237. a senseless war where tens of thousands of civilians have been slaughtered with bombs. Okay. That's why the guy gave me
  238. $500. I don't have to agree with him on everything. And I guarantee I don't. >> Yeah. >> I probably disagree with him more than I agree with him. I don't know. Um, but
  239. that's that's an interesting aspect of this. And then you have so we talked about Miriam Adlesen, the dual citizen who even Trump believes she's more loyal
  240. to Israel than to the United States. She's one of the billionaires who's given over two million so far to take me out. One is Paul Singer who controls the
  241. Washington Free Beacon and he got this hit piece written about 500 bucks because he didn't like seeing his name in the news because I'm putting it in the news. And then um he's like a member
  242. of the World Economic Forum and he's he's you know your consumate globalist uh probably I he's got ties to military
  243. contractors too like I don't want to get this wrong but he he has ownership in some of these companies I think and then certainly holds stocks in them and then
  244. uh John Pollson this is the interesting one now he's only given oh a mere quarter of a million to the effort to take me out of
  245. Congress. He's like the of the billionaires. He's the least of the billionaires. That's the least generous of the billionaires to their cause,
  246. which is to take out a true American first congressman. Um he is in Epstein's blackbook
  247. and I love to point that out because he's that this is why you know when you said does this relate to Gaza? Does does
  248. the Epstein thing relate? The universe of billionaires is small enough that it's all related. The people that control the newspaper that's writing the
  249. hit piece are the same people that want the war to go on or the same people trying to take me out are friends uh and co-downers with people who knew Jeffrey
  250. Epstein enough that Jeffrey Jeffrey Epstein had their personal cell numbers in his black book. It's not It doesn't mean that John Pollson, you know, had
  251. sex with women, non-consensual sex or sex traffic. It doesn't mean doesn't even mean he was at the island. It just means that uh he was one of maybe 500 or
  252. a thousand people that Jeffrey Epstein was concerned with enough to have his contact in personal contact information
  253. >> when so the the target on your back for questioning America's involvement in
  254. Israel's foreign policy decisions far precedes the Epstein discharge. charge petition and and le let's just
  255. let's just lay it out because I think we've talked we talked about this years ago. >> Your your basic point on foreign aid and
  256. foreign intervention is it's not our business. >> Right. I'd never singled out Israel. I just want no foreign aid. I I don't vote
  257. for foreign aid. It gets me in trouble sometimes because foreign aid will be in another bigger bill and I'm like, well, I'm not for the foreign aid. not voting for this. Uh I don't vote for it uh when
  258. it's aid for a war. Like I I have never voted to fund the war in Ukraine. And so, you know, I'm not picking on
  259. Ukraine. I'm not picking on Israel. I don't pick on any country. Georgia, you know, they um which has been back and
  260. forth with Russia over that in Afghanistan. I don't vote for that. That's gone on so long. I just don't vote for any of it. I've never singled
  261. out Israel. In fact, I never criticized Israel. I've criticized the war that they're waging right now. But there are
  262. people in Israel that are criticizing the war that they're waging right now. In fact, this is why they bring Netanyahu to Congress. I can tell you
  263. exactly how this happens. Mike Johnson doesn't sit around thinking Oh man, it's been it's been like six
  264. months since we had Netanyahu here. We should invite Netanyahu again to address all of Congress and and [snorts] the
  265. Senate all at once. What happens is his support for his wares,
  266. not just globally, but domestically. and the State Department gets on the phone and calls up the speaker and says,
  267. "We need to for Netanyahu to look strong and we want him to give an address to the joint congress." So, this will make
  268. him look important on the world stage if he's standing there in front of 535 members of the legislature of the most powerful country in the world, advising
  269. them and informing them on things in their own chamber. And so that's the reason they had it's not because Netanyahu is giving a particularly
  270. insightful speech or something that we couldn't read ourselves. It's to prop him up >> and and to prop up the war uh support
  271. for the war. >> Yeah. Um I want to talk about Netanyahu for just a second because I'm thinking of that uh gathering he had with conservative influencers. I think it's
  272. about it was it was in conjunction with that >> and he was giving marching orders to how
  273. he can control the narrative in the United States about what Americans should think about him and his war. >> Well, uh, you know, we talked about in
  274. the last segment about labeling requirements for beef and that we should have country of origin labeling on our beef. I think we should have country of
  275. origin labeling on our political uh donations and and campaigns in the United States like which which country
  276. or which country's lobby. So Apac is very careful to point out that their donors [snorts] are Americans, but
  277. they're still a foreign lobby. And the Foreign Agent Act doesn't it doesn't say that it it doesn't matter where your
  278. money comes from. You're still required to register as a foreign agent if you are you can be an American. You can just be doing it on your own effort, not even
  279. paid. But if you're taking any kind of direction or orders from the country and you're advocating for that country, which Apac does, they're organizing
  280. trips over there. They're obviously interacting with their legislature and Netanyahu and all that stuff. They're not going it on their own and so
  281. [snorts] they should be registered, but so should I think all these social media accounts that are funded or paid for with foreign dollars that should be
  282. completely disclosed. It's pretty obvious that the people at that event were somehow receiving funding from Israel or Israel adjacent organizations.
  283. I suggest a little sticker like a USDA sticker that you get on your stake. You know, maybe just put it on their lapel,
  284. but that that would include most members of your party apparently at this point. >> Yes. Uh, I get I think Marjorie Taylor Green and I are maybe
  285. >> You guys don't get a sticker. >> We don't get a sticker. If these were NASCAR uniforms, we would not be sponsored by Apac. Um,
  286. both of us also have something else in common. We don't let them in our office. If you're I mean, and I'm not picking on Israel. if you if you're with the
  287. Turkish lobby um or I guess there's probably people say right nowQatar is influencing our government. I've never
  288. seen a lobbyist from Qatar who says they're from Qatar knocking on my door. There there are ones, you know, from like Turkey that try to have influence
  289. and I just don't meet with foreign lobbyists. I mean, you got to be from my district advocating for something in my district.
  290. >> Yeah. Well, let's uh we're we're bumping up on we got about 10 minutes left and I want to talk about about the war itself. And one of one of the things that
  291. frustrates me with so-called conservatives who are really and I'll I'll I'll just mention Ted Cruz as one of these guys, Senator Ted Cruz, who um
  292. says that defending Israel is like his first priority. I don't ever remember him saying that when when he actually ran as a Tea Party Republican in 2010.
  293. don't want to go down that rabbit hole. But um the thing that frustrates me with um Israel first type conservatives is
  294. that they make this this ultimately quite collectivist argument that the innocents that are dying in Gaza are somehow deserving of that because they
  295. supported Hamas. And and I'm thinking particularly of, you know, Justin Amash had, I think, two cousins killed, >> Christian cousins.
  296. >> Christian cousins, right, killed um almost two years ago in some of the first attacks from Israel into Gaza. But
  297. how could a conservative make that argument? Because the the people that pay the price for war are not the perpetrators. It's all it's all the the the collateral damage and cannon fodder
  298. in the middle. In Washington DC, you get what you incentivize. And so for Senator Cruz to make that statement, there's
  299. almost no cost. Um, but the benefit is great if you if you look at the donations that would in
  300. ensue from that. And then also although um the demographics of your district or
  301. state may be such that it's not obvious that there's a benefit to making that statement except that there are organizations in the Christian churches
  302. that um where if you make that statement there's an electoral advantage to making that statement [snorts]
  303. although that's changing. So, let me let me tell you some insight I have. I I hate that in Washington we're oftentimes just regurgitating things and there's no
  304. original source. We're expressing opinions. As an engineer, I'd like to bring some facts to this. So, I've had
  305. the same position on foreign aid since I got elected in 2012. And the the only place where I pay a price for that
  306. position or could pay a price for that position is when my blanket prohibition on voting for foreign aid also incorporates Israel. I don't vote for
  307. foreign aid to any country including Israel. So since 2014 I have been polling. You know when you do polls about your election you don't just ask
  308. am I going to win or is the other guy going to win right? You ask uh things that will inform you about your
  309. opponent's vulnerabilities and also things about your own vulnerabilities and maybe things where you just want to know like it doesn't
  310. change the your position. You just want to know how much uh does this position cost you? Um is it a liability? So since
  311. 2014, I've asked the same question on my polls, which may have up to 40 questions, and that is I phrase it the same way every year, so I can compare
  312. apples to apples. The US government gives about $3.8 billion annually to the country of Israel.
  313. Which of the following choices describes your opinion and of this? And the first choice is we should give them more money.
  314. The second choice is that's about right. The third choice is we should give them less. And then the fourth choice is we
  315. should give them nothing at all. And I've been asking that same question for over a decade on on my polls. And what I have noticed to to use an an MIT term or
  316. a math term, support for foreign aid to Israel has been monotonically decreasing. That means it's it it may
  317. not decrease at the same rate every year, but every year it has decreased. There's been no year in which it has gone up. It's monotonically decreasing.
  318. And this year, and this poll is pretty fresh. This is a couple months old, maybe maybe six weeks old,
  319. uh was the first time that among the Republican primary voters in Kucky's fourth congressional district, that over half the people chose nothing at all or
  320. less than what we're giving them. And so we not only have we been moving in a trend, we've crossed a threshold where
  321. now in a Republican primary, and I can only speak for one congressional district in Kentucky, um it my position that I've held since
  322. 2012 is now more favorable than um less favorable. which is why the people that
  323. are opposing you because of your stance on Israel are not running ads that are pro-Israel. They're correct making up
  324. some >> right >> apparently you're a communist by the way. >> I mean it's it's ironic the ads that they are running.
  325. They might they falsely try to say I'm for boys playing girls sports or they you know there's some omnibus bill like
  326. the big beautiful bill. Okay. The first version of it it was kind of a bait and switch had something where they were
  327. going to outlaw boys and girls sports or or something to that effect. Um and I voted against it not because of that
  328. provision. And that provision is such a minor part of that giant bill which had hundreds of billions of dollars of fiscal implications. That was sort of a
  329. sweetener in there. Also a poison pill to to Republicans. And so that's how they got every one of the ways they got everybody to vote for it is nobody
  330. wanted to be have that ad run against them. But now the ad's being run against me by billionaires who want boys and
  331. girls bathrooms, >> right? Like Paul Singer has given over a million dollars to the trans activist cause
  332. where boys he thinks boys should be able to play in girls sports and or at least that's the way he's voting with his money.
  333. But that's the dude who's the biggest donor or second biggest donor funding the ads saying that I'm for that thing that he's
  334. for and that it's a bad thing. Obviously, I'm not for it, but that's the kind of duplicitous
  335. um you know, tactics they use. They they know it's a liability in my district, so they accuse me of holding
  336. that position when I don't, but they themselves hold that position. >> It's it's crazy. >> Well, the good news on this, and we've
  337. run out of time because you got to you got to do another show. Um, the good news is that every time they attack you,
  338. every time there's a mean tweet, your fundraising goes up. >> Well, uh, it does go up. Here's the other good news. They're elevating my
  339. message. Um, I went on Tucker Carlson about a year and a half ago and explained exactly how Apac works in
  340. Congress and how they have outsized influence um, among congressmen. I mean, it's a country with what 10
  341. it's it's only like 10 million people or something, you know, it's comparable to Norway or or something like that and we're letting them control so much of
  342. our policy because they are the most effective lobby in Washington DC. But so anyways, the I guess the silver lining, if you will, to me getting attacked
  343. every week is people are starting to pay attention. Oh, why why are they attacking him? Oh well, I think I hold his position too. And um it is causing
  344. people to donate to me when when you are singular and hold a position that is the majority position in the Republican
  345. party, but you're the only Republican in Washington DC holding that position, you're going to find a lot of support.
  346. And that's what I'm finding when I oppose this war in Gaza or when I oppose foreign aid to all countries, not just Israel. U I don't know if it was in this
  347. segment or the segment we taped before, but you alluded to me being the most hated person in Washington DC. I have to
  348. tell you, I think I thank Marjorie Taylor Green every week for getting elected so that I'm only the most hated man in Washington DC. We're sharing
  349. duty. She's the most hated woman. I'm the most hated man. But she's she is speaking. I had a reporter today text me, "Hey, I see Marjorie saying this and
  350. Marjorie saying that and Mar it's like she's committing cander, right? That those weren't the reporter's words, but she's saying all of these things. What's
  351. what's your comment on what she's saying?" And I said, "She's calling it like she sees it, and she sees it like the rest of America sees it."
  352. They're confused by both of you because you actually believe certain things and are doing what you believe. >> And then
  353. >> it's very unw Washington. >> The next text from the reporter is, well, some are saying she must be running for president and she's taking
  354. all these positions that everybody agrees with. I'm like, what? No, that is what we're supposed to do as representatives, right? If there's a
  355. there's an issue that you know that everybody's pretty well informed on and they're and they are 80% in support of it and you come here to Washington DC
  356. and you support that as well, it doesn't mean you're running for president. It just means you're doing your damn job. >> Let's end it there. I wish we could have
  357. another hour with you, but I think we've I think we've done enough. Thank you so much, Congressman. >> Thanks, Matt. >> Thanks for watching. If you liked the
  358. conversation, make sure to like the video, subscribe, and also ring the bell for notifications. And if you want to know more about Free the People, go to
  359. freethepeople.org.